Japan vs Catholic Countries. Is Christ necessary?


#1

An assertion was made that christ is ncessary to eradicate pain, suffering and poverty:

I say, if that was the case then how come there are dozens of catholic majority countries out there (from the lithuania to zimbabwe) which has a much more serious problems with pain, suffering & poverty compared to a christ-less infidel country like Japan?


#2

In my own opinion, I believe it is a global thing not a country thing. Imagine for instance that Jesus is God, we wouldnt be able to eternaly thrive without him. Simply because he creates us and we should have some sort of relationship with him. we cant ignore the creator and prosper for all eternity.


#3

The fact is… there IS evil in this world. All over… even in Japan.
It’s not a “perfect” society… there are no indications that it is perfect.

As Catholics we believe the source of all evil and suffering in this world in Satan.
If Satan’s goal is to disrupt Christ’s church, then of course he’s going to focus most of his efforts on “Catholic” countries.

Japan isn’t “proof” of anything… nor is any other country.

Evil is ALL OVER this world and it will not be completely eradicated until Christ returns.


#4

There are at least two assumptions in this question that are unproven assertions, which I do not believe:

  1. Japan is free of pain, suffering and poverty, and
  2. Japan is “christ-less”

Can you show me that these are true?


#5

Reference:

suicide statistics.

‘well-developed’. thats the point, what is needed to erradicate pain, poverty & suffering is ‘development’, not Christ.

may I remind you that in japan they have a cultural thingie called ‘seppuku’, or ritual suicide to preserve honor. Therefore suicide is more acceptable to the japanese people than christians who view it as a one way ticket to hell.

i tell you, its all thanks to San Miguel Beer. Seriously, its our strong cultural tradition to drink problems away. Thats why we only scored 2.1 compared to Italians who scored 7.1. As we always say “In heaven there is no beer, thats why we drink it here!:thumbsup:

San Miguel Beer, its more powerful than having the Pope as your neighbor!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1e/Palepilsen.jpg/100px-Palepilsen.jpg


#6

Actually I remeber soemthing in the BBC sayign taht nigeria and the coutnries of Africa had the happies people. rather than in the first world and I can agree with that people in teh 3th world are less secular more happy and have less social problems in comparison with other nations.


#7

This says otherwise. The happiest people belongs to rich countries, except for…

nationmaster.com/graph/lif_hap_net-lifestyle-happiness-net

TADAA!!! PHILIPPINES IS #12! We are such a happy folk. :smiley:

Oh look Italy is all the way down to #23. What the hell happened, Mr. Ratzinger??? :shrug:


#8

hahah no offence bro but those stats are tota nuts lol

those are the coutnrys that have more secualrism, more depresion, and more suicides believe me.

#1 Iceland: 94%
#2 Netherlands: 91%
#3 Denmark: 91%
#4 Sweden:

I doubt this is right, I better relly in the documentary of the bbc that point to africa. happines is not about meterialism. Believe me I know that from experience. and many people I know have agreed with me.

perhaps the person that made that stat misunderstood welfare and life quality with happines.

#11 Belgium: Belgium is nubmer 11, I have friends there and oficialy Belgium has one of the most higest suicide rate in all europe.


#9

Sounds like you’re a catholic in the making. Stay away from the Mormons, you’d have to give up the San Miguel.


#10

It seems that happiness is completely oposed to securalism because the documentary in the BBC showed that people are in good spirit in poorer, more religious and less secular places, rather than in places that have all the confortable stuffs of the first world.
My friend told me that when she was in Africa people were really happy even if they didnt have nothing to eat for tomorrow, unlike many in the first world that have all the material welfare and still are very unhappy


#11

There is truly nothing new under the sun. This question is just a variation on the old anti-Catholic canard:

**Q: If the Reformation was a rebellion, why has God blessed the English-speaking, Protestant countries with more freedom and prosperity than the Catholic countries have received? Does God bless apostasy and curse faithfulness? **

A: English-speaking countries that are predominantly Protestant (Great Britain, America, Canada, Australia) have received a great deal of political freedom and material prosperity. But freedom and prosperity are not indicators that a person or a country is right with God.

When it comes to freedom, some would say that the problem with these countries is that they have too much freedom. In the name of individual choice the citizens of United States have taken the lives of thirty million unborn children–five times the number of Jews that Hitler killed. The situations in Canada, England, and Australia are no better when it comes to abortion.

There is freedom to produce, purchase, and view unprecedented amounts of pornographic, violent, and ungodly entertainment. There is freedom that makes possible the confusion of gender roles that our society is experiencing, not only through the homosexual movement, but through the much broader feminist movement.

While freedom has been collapsing into libertinism in some areas, it has been severely curtailed in others. Teachers can hardly mention God in the public schools into which most families are forced to put their children due to the government subsidies these schools receive. Freedom is also curtailed by high tax burdens in “English-speaking, Protestant countries.” (Yes, most countries have high taxes, even “non-English-speaking, non-Protestant countries,” but “English-speaking, Protestant countries” usually are expensive welfare states with abnormally high tax rates.) High taxes make it difficult for families to make ends meet, and this means middle-class mothers of young children find themselves forced to work outside the home. It used to be enough in affluent countries that the father alone was employed.

Countries that commonly are considered Catholic (and no such country nowadays is really that, but there are a few, such as Ireland, that maintain a Catholic ethos to a degree), while usually having low GNPs, tend to avoid some of the social problems found in the richer, “English-speaking, Protestant countries.” They tend, for example, to have lower rates of abortion, divorce, and pornography.
catholic.com/thisrock/1994/9401qq.asp


#12

problem is there is no perfect country-recently there has been a several stories about the secret poverty (families starving cause not in Japanese character to ask for help -nor to in the character of the nation to admit wrongdoing no fault ww ii) and a legal system that is virtually facistic in it’s dealing with criminals.


#13

Off-topic… :smiley:

Ibuhos na ang beer
Sa aking lala mu nan
Upang malunod na ang
Puso kong na hihi rapan
Bawat patak anong sarap
Ano ba talagang mas gusto
Ang beer na ito
O ang pag-ibig mo


#14

There any many things about Japanese culture that would not be accepted here…

For example…

Now look at the Japanese scene here (there is no explicit expose, but I doubt parents here would allow their children to watch the Japanese version)…

yu-jyo.net/004/172.html

Meanwhile Cardinal George Pell, Archbishop of Sydney, has attacked “secular democracy” because it allows pornography, abortion, high levels of marriage breakdown, in vitro fertilisation and stem cell research. In its place, Pell would like to see “democracy founded on the transcendent dignity of the human person” – a dignity that he believes comes into existence at conception. Never mind if that’s a minority view in Australia – there is, Pell assures us, “nothing undemocratic” about bringing into Australian politics the “truth” of this transcendent dignity, and of “our dependence on God”.

Pell’s list resembles that on which the “moral-values” voters in the US seem to focus. For them, stopping gay marriage and abortion are priorities but there is also a concern about stem cell research that leads to the destruction of human embryos. Nor is pornography far behind these concerns. Many Americans who support Bush cite Janet Jackson’s “wardrobe malfunction” at the Superbowl, which exposed her breast on national television, as a sign of the nation’s moral decline. Under Bush, the regulators of the airwaves are imposing heavy fines on radio and television for showing a female breast or using any specified Anglo-Saxon words describing sexual activity or sex organs

What is absent from these lists of evils, whether they come from the American religious right or from Australia’s own Christian conservatives, is any reference to America’s or Australia’s glaring failures as global citizens – even though these failures continue to be responsible for the loss of millions of innocent human lives.

Consider: more than a billion people live in desperate poverty, barely existing on the purchasing power equivalent of about $US1 ($1.28) per day. Poverty this severe kills, from starvation, malnutrition and the inability to obtain even the most minimal health care. Most of its victims are children. According to UNICEF, the United Nations fund for children, 11 million children die needlessly each year. That’s more than 30,000 every day, or 10 times the number of people killed in the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001. At the Millennium Summit held in New York in 2000, the leaders of 148 nations, including Australia and the US, committed themselves to a series of development goals, including the reduction of child mortality by two-thirds by 2015. If the world’s poorest families had access to safe drinking water and basic health care that goal could be achieved and 20,000 lives per day would be saved. But two recent reports – UNICEF’s “Progress for Children: A Child Survival Report Card”, and the World Bank’s “Global Economic Prospects” – indicate that while some countries, especially China and India, have made substantial progress, others are falling further and further behind. Nor have the rich nations done enough to enable the poorest nations to make the progress that is required.

utilitarian.net/singer/by/20041215.htm

Something to consider why considering moral values…


#15

Because the goal of Christianity is not the elimination of pain/suffering/et al.

Only one form of pain/etc is “eradicated” by following Christ: The pain of not knowing while living that you won’t spend eternity in hell.

Any other form of pain/etc is ridiculously trivial compared to that, and, for the true Christian easily endured, though not painlessly endured, as just another “Cross to bear and offer up to Jesus”.

Poverty is just a form of pain/suffering/etc, and is to be fought in a Christian way such that it too is made into a worthy offering to Christ.

Do you now understand how the only important “suffering” is dispensed with entirely, and all other forms of it are used for the purpose for which they exist by the true Christian?

Please research the Catholic understanding of the term “Martyr”. It will help you understand this “suffering” subject properly.


#16

That is utter nonsense. The US is the most well developed country the world has ever known yet you couldn’t say it is remotely close to eliminating pain, poverty and suffering. Development will do nothing but make people more gready. Christ is the answer.

Why do you reference the suicide statistics? Japan has more suicides than almost all countries on the planet. That shoots a hole right in your arguement that Japan is free from pain and suffering.


#17

You didn’t mention about Japan

–alcoholism (they don’t see it as drug abuse)

–sexism (outdated rape laws)

–materialism

–depression/mental illness and the shame that prevents it from being treated

–Growing homeless rate( especially among the elderly)

–Racism/ethnic discrimination of Japanese ethnic minorities

– relatively high abortion rate( none of that “single mom”) stuff.

–Oh BTW as “christ-less” as Japan is, there is NO sex education in schools. So what could their motivation be?

–poor handling of “special needs” children or children with learning disabilities.


#18

LOL you clearly know nothing about Japan then! Japan has problems just like any other country. Jesus said to preach the gospel to the ends of the earth so all shall know him and that includes Japan. People here are people they have original sin, and there is evil present just like anywhere else. There is plenty of pain and suffering here as well.


#19

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