Jeffrey Dahmer Baptism Valid


#1

Is Jeffery Donner Baptism by the Angelican Priest valid according to the Sacrament of Baptism and if so, does that mean his Soul was able to escape the condemnation of eternal fire for the grave sins of same-sex intercourse, rape, murder and cannibalism at the particular judgment at the time of his death? :confused:


#2

I assume you mean Dahmer.

If his conversion and baptism were sincere and valid, then yes, God can and will forgive anyone who ask for forgiveness.

But God is infintiely just as well as being infintely merciful. No one get’s off scott-free.


#3

Yep…even Dahmer could have been saved, if he was sincere in his heart…only God can judge that… I think its a safe bet though, that if he escaped hell… he’s probably in the bunch that is in the very depths of purgatory, suffering an expiation til the end of time…or close to it… but again…who knows?


#4

was he baptized in prison?


#5

Regenhund,

Thanks for your response and the correct spelling of Jeffrey Dahmer name. Let me clarify my question. Does the doctrinal differences between Anglicanism and the Church of Rome on the understanding of the Eucharist, ordination and the nature of authority in the Church have an affect on the validity of Jeffrey Dahmer’s baptism by an Anglican Priest? :confused:

Faithful 2 Rome,

Thanks for your response. The Anglicanism Thirty Nine Articles of Religion, XXII saids purgatory was vainly invented, and grounded upon no warranty of scripture, but rather repugnant to the word of God. Taking that in consideration, I guess Jeffrey Dahmer even escaped purgatory. The A&E Biography said a fellow inmate claimed God instructed him to murder Jeffrey Dahmer and he died 11/28/1994 :eek:

Quasimodo

Thank you for your response. According to the A&E Biography, yes, Jeffrey Dahmer was baptized in prison by an Anglican Priest.


#6

Does the doctrinal differences between Anglicanism and the Church of Rome on the understanding of the Eucharist, ordination and the nature of authority in the Church have an affect on the validity of Jeffrey Dahmer’s baptism by an Anglican Priest?

I think this would depend on the internal dispositions of Dahmer himself.

If he knew that the Catholic Church was the one true Church, and still sought baptism from a heretical cleric, then the baptism, while valid and imparting the baptismal seal, would not be efficacious unto salvation. Ditto if he was ignorant, but should have known the Truth (i.e. if his ignorance was vincible, not invincible).

Then again, if Dahmer did accept Catholic Christianity as the one, True Faith, but sought baptism from an Anglican minister because no Catholic priest was available, then that would be acceptable.

Saint Constantine the Great is said to have been baptized by an Arian bishop for such a just cause.


#7

DominusvsVobiscum

Thank you very much for your response, it has definitely brought clarification and enlightment in understanding how I should process my thoughts concerning baptismal validity. :slight_smile:


#8

[quote=Faithful 2 Rome]Yep…even Dahmer could have been saved
[/quote]

I believe there was a case in the earliest centuries of the church where a man was travelling to Jerusalem or Rome. He wished to join the Church. Due to the dangers of the journey, he asked his slave to baptize him. The pope determined that is was valid since

  1. the trinitarian formula was used
  2. water was used
  3. the intention was to initiate the person into the church
    It does not matter what Dahmer’s disposition was, since we are never fully, properly disposed to receive a sacrament. God works in spite of ourselves at times. For example, no infant is properly disposed to be baptized, but the grace is granted none-the-less.

A baptism by any person is valid. What one questions when a non-catholic or lay person baptizes ‘Is the baptism licit.’ Licitness has no effect on the validity or reception of the graces, only on the state of moral health of one performing illicit acts. The anglican acted in good faith (I assume) but if not, any sin would be on his part, not on Dahmer UNLESS Dahmer asked the anglican for baptism as an act of defiance and disobediance to the Church.


#9

One other note . . . . Dahmer, if indeed validly baptized, unless he in his will consented to the evil that he did after baptism, is not only forgiven of his evil, but he will also never spend a minute in purgatory for them. Baptism removes not only the eternal punishment but also the need for purgation. He may have to spend some “time” in purgatory for anything he did after Baptism. If he gave consent of his will for his sins after the Baptism, then it is possible that he is not saved at all.

David


#10

I am sure if truly repentant, Jeffrey Dahmer will be in Heaven.
God can only read someones heart. And at the time of death, there is no turning back, you have the ability to accept or reject God once and for all.

go with God!
Edwin


#11

[quote=CareBere]Is Jeffery Donner Baptism by the Angelican Priest valid according to the Sacrament of Baptism and if so, does that mean his Soul was able to escape the condemnation of eternal fire for the grave sins of same-sex intercourse, rape, murder and cannibalism at the particular judgment at the time of his death? :confused:
[/quote]

If he was baptized in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, it is valid.

Anyone can be saved. Jesus said that all sins will be forgiven except for blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

Hopefully he was sincere. I would like to see all men and women saved. But his soul is in Gods hands.


#12

[quote=CareBere]Thanks for your response. The Anglicanism Thirty Nine Articles of Religion, XXII saids purgatory was vainly invented, and grounded upon no warranty of scripture, but rather repugnant to the word of God. Taking that in consideration, I guess Jeffrey Dahmer even escaped purgatory.
[/quote]

I’m surprised no one caught this. As an Anglican I would note two points:

First–although Anglicans usually don’t believe in purgatory (as a place on the map of the geography of the Afterlife) for the reasons cited above, but many–probably most–believe in some sort of ‘purgation’ which occurs instantaneously to the redeemed following death. This whole thing gets a bit meaningless since Heaven is supposed to be a timeless place, AND since purgatory actually is a part of Heaven. It’s just not the part of Heaven where God dwells in all of His fullness. I think I’ve nailed down that corner of Roman Catholic theology correctly.

Secondly: if, despite the XXIInd Article of Religion, there IS a ‘purgatory’ as Roman theology teaches–some sort of anteroom to Heaven for those not quite perfectly cleansed of the residues of sin–AND if Jeffrey Dahmer did not repent of his wickedness with a ‘perfect contrition’, (which cleanses of all sins and all residue thereof)–then Jeffrey Dahmer went to Purgatory. I’m gong to go out on a limb a bit and say that how long Jeffrey Dahmer stays there will depend upon just how ‘imperfectly contrite’ he was at thetime of his death. Someone can disabuse me if this is not stated correctly.

I think the ideas of the Eastern Orthodox are closer to the Anglican than to the Roman Catholics, but I hesitate to say so too loudly–I am rather glaringly ignorant of the details of Eastern Orthodoxy and how it differs from Roman Catholicism.


#13

Too bad Jeffrey died, he could have helped solve the prison overcrowding problem.


#14

[quote=hermit]Too bad Jeffrey died, he could have helped solve the prison overcrowding problem.
[/quote]

Ha:D


#15

I recall a certain thief who went straight from the cross to heaven.


#16

[quote=CareBere]Is Jeffery Donner Baptism by the Angelican Priest valid according to the Sacrament of Baptism and if so, does that mean his Soul was able to escape the condemnation of eternal fire for the grave sins of same-sex intercourse, rape, murder and cannibalism at the particular judgment at the time of his death? :confused:
[/quote]

Why is the world do YOU care? He is a murderer–forget about him!


#17

if baptism is performed using water, by pouring or immersion, and the trinitarian formula is pronounced, with the intent to effect what the church believes about baptism, then anyone may baptize, even a non-Christian. The one baptized (or his parents in the case of a child below the age of reason) must intend the effects of the sacrament and make a sincere, informed profession of faith. If these conditions are met the soul is cleansed completely of original sin, and of any actual sin commited before baptism, yes including those as horrendous as the ones that put Dahmer in prison. The person becomes a child of God, receives sanctifying grace–the state of seeing and knowing the Truth that is God and belonging to God-- the soul receives an indelible mark forever identifying it as a Christian. Assuming the person dies in this state of grace before committing any further sin, he would be accepted immediately into heaven, literally welcomed to God’s own bosom, without need for purgation.

If this causes you pain, I suggest you spend some time with the people in the gospels, stories such as the prodigal son, the Samaritan woman, the woman who anointed the feet of Jesus, the workers in the vineyard, the lost sheep, those delivered of demons, the good thief, Peter and sundry other sinners.


#18

[quote=sparkle]Why is the world do YOU care? He is a murderer–forget about him!
[/quote]

Yes, if he was wondering about only Jeffrey’s particular soul I would agree… his salvation is between god and Jeffrey.

I think though that the question is more directed at whether someone in such a predicament can be saved. The answer of course is “yes.” I will not comment on Catholic Cannon law because I am not Catholic, but from a purely gospel point of view if he was repentant, baptized, and in God’s Grace then he was saved.

The harlots, murderers, thieves, and others may enter the gates of heaven before us.

The head of the worst prison under Pol Pot has converted to Christianity. I think that he may even be Catholic but I am not sure. That man is guilty of the murder of thousands upon thousands of men, women, children, and infants. Even this man may enter the gates of heaven before us.


#19

Saint Constantine the Great is said …

When was Constantine canonized a saint?


#20

[quote=Shibboleth]The harlots, murderers, thieves, and others may enter the gates of heaven before us. The head of the worst prison under Pol Pot has converted to Christianity. I think that he may even be Catholic but I am not sure. That man is guilty of the murder of thousands upon thousands of men, women, children, and infants. Even this man may enter the gates of heaven before us.
[/quote]

I’m sorry but I totally disagree with you and your views. Uhhhhh–I don’t think so~~I think these wicked people, regardless of their supposed alleged “last minute conversion” will go straight to you know where. How could you even think THEY can be “saved”? I’m sorry–but this is my view. They are children of Satan–and YES they are not the same as us.


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