Jehovah Witnesses and paradise


#1

Hi every one out there, how r u all? This is my first post and it has to do with Jehovah Witnesses (JWs) . My brother keeps talking to a particular JW once a week (He is strong in his faith so no worries there). But I am trying to understand their theology, and at the same time finding ways of making them realise how handicaped their belief system really is. They point to Psa 37:7 and Mat 5:5 (“the meek shall inherit the earth/land”) to indicate that we are going to be rewarded with an EARTHLY paradise.

I honestly do not know how they can coupe with loving a god who at the end does not give a toss about them. After all if we are honest with ourselves our greatest desire is not really to have eternal life but rather to be with God and to share our love with him in a full, intimate relationship. Now imagine a God so cruel as to implant in us such craving for Him and then to turn his back and say “live for EVER, here have some trees and land… and by the way you will continue to long for me for all eternity”. Man their paradise seems more like hell !

Any way going back to the topic, please correct me if I’m wrong but I think Psa 37:7 has more to do with their longing for Israel but I’m stuck with Mat 5:5 cause Jesus is not talking about temporal matters here. Please reply if u know how these passages are meant to be taken?


#2

Alex,

I’ll quote from catholic answers for they have better explanation regarding this matter:

The JWs attempt to use verses such as Psalms 37:29 as evidence that the just are to inherit the land forever, which is earth. In context, this refers to inheriting the promised land as a sign of God’s blessing in the Old Testament. But, Hebrews 11:8-16 indicates that there is a homeland better than the promised land on earth, and this is the heavenly one for those who die in faith. The Old Testament patriarchs “publicly declared that they were strangers and temporary residents in the land . . . they are earnestly seeking a place of their own. . . . But now they are reaching out for a better [place], that is, one belonging to heaven. . . . God . . . has made a city ready for them. . . .These [OT men and women] did not get the [fulfillment of the] promise . . . as God foresaw something better for us” (Heb. 11:13-16,39-40). Even the footnote of the NWT makes clear that the “city” spoken of in these verses is the heavenly Jerusalem mentioned in Hebrews 12:22 and Revelation 21:2. But, the Watchtower still maintains that no one that lived before Christ will ever enter heaven. “The apostle Paul in the eleventh chapter of Hebrews names a long list of faithful men who died before the crucifixion of the Lord. . . . These can never be a part of the heavenly class” (Millions Now Living, p. 89). Only the 144,000 elite that all lived after the death of Christ will supposedly go to heaven. Matthew 8:11-12 provides severe difficulties for this idea, since Jesus proclaims, “many from eastern parts and western parts will come and recline at the table with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of the heavens; whereas the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the darkness outside. There is where [their] weeping and the gnashing of [their] teeth will be.” No verse could be clearer in declaring that the patriarchs are in heaven. The following verses all demonstrate that Christians go to heaven, and do not remain on earth: 2 Corinthians 5:1; Hebrews 3:1; Ephesians 2:6; Colossians 1:4-5; 1 Peter 1:4.

Pio


#3

Hi:

The Jehovah’s Witnesses do attempt to apply that beatitude to their belief that most of the saved will live forever in paradise on earth.

Interestingly, the JWs will admit that all 1st Century Christians had the hope of going to heaven to be with Jesus for eternity.

In any case, the Catholic Encyclopedia explains this verse in the following way:

“Inasmuch as poverty is a state of humble subjection, the “poor in spirit”, come near to the “meek”, the subject of the second blessing. The anawim, they who humbly and meekly bend themselves down before God and man, shall “inherit the land” and posses their inheritance in peace. This is a phrase taken from Ps. xxxvi (Hebr., xxxvii), 11, where it refers to the Promised Land of Israel, but here in the words of Christ, it is of course but a symbol of the Kingdom of Heaven, the spiritual realm of the Messiah. Not a few interpreters, however, understand “the earth”. But they overlook the original meaning of Ps. xxxvi, 11, and unless, by a far-fetched expedient, they take the earth also to be a symbol of the Messianic kingdom, it will be hard to explain the possession of the earth in a satisfactory way.”

Remember that in Revelation 21 it says that we will all one day, when Christ returns again, live in the new heavens and the new earth. In other words, we will still be human. With a glorified human body married to our human soul. However, we will live in the presence of God for eternity (unlike the JW paradise which will not have the literal presence of God around.)

As usual the JWs offer a hope that is severely lacking and that encourages us to choose to be and accept a whole lot less than God wants us to be and to have. As my JW mother once told me 'the hardest thing she ever had to give up to become a JW was the hope of seeing Jesus face to face."

Jeff S.


#4

Actually the JW’s believe that the Paradise will be just like the “paradise” Adam & Eve experienced in the garden of eden, in full communion with Jehovah God. They believed they will be ruled by the 144,000 annointed who have gone to heaven.


#5

I studied with some JW’s for awhile as well. They believe that only 144,000 will be with God in heaven. The rest of them (the lucky ones) will remain on this earth to clean it up after the battle of Armageddon. Sorry if that’s misspelled. Anyway, they ignore the part about there being a “new” heaven and earth while the “old” is passed away. Of course, they do believe that not all will be “lucky.” Some will go to hell. Especially if you’re not in the “truth.” They see themselves as the only ones in the truth. As they ask each other, “how long have you been in the truth?”


#6

Part of the attraction to JW theology is that JW’s don’t believe in an eternal, flame-ful hell. You’re either resurrected, or you are annihilated forever.

Ahimsa


#7

[quote=Christy Beth] Of course, they do believe that not all will be “lucky.” Some will go to hell. Especially if you’re not in the “truth.” They see themselves as the only ones in the truth. As they ask each other, “how long have you been in the truth?”
[/quote]

They do not believe in hell. Only heaven for the 144,000 and Paradise earth for the “other sheep, not of this fold.” No hell.

And yes, the question, “How long have you been in the truth?” Is a common one.


#8

I studied with some JW’s for awhile as well. They believe that only 144,000 will be with God in heaven. The rest of them (the lucky ones) will remain on this earth to clean it up after the battle of Armageddon.

This is a silly doctrine indeed. So who’s gonna use the broom? Are they going to use incenerators to clean up?

Pio


#9

Actually it was rather gross…

We were told that birds (buzzards?) would eat the meat off the bones of all the dead people and we’d be left picking up the bones. These were ONLY the people who were alive at the battle of Armegeddon who weren’t faithful JW’s. People who had the good fortune to die before the “battle” would get a 2nd chance at knowing the “truth.” Because I was the only JW in my family and no one was interested in hearing “the truth,” I used to pray every night that my loved ones would die soon so they wouldn’t be alive at the very soon Battle of Armegeddon. I honestly hoped my brother, whom I love dearly would die. Isn’t that so warped and pathetic? What a religion !! Thank you Jesus that I don’t believe the lies anymore.


#10

I like to ask JW’s why they are trying to convert me. I might just be the last of the 144,000 that makes it to heaven thus kicking them out of their spot in heaven! Then invite them to your birthday party so they can share their faith with your friends and have some cake and punch too.:whacky:

I learned that line from a good Mormon/Christian friend of mine.:confused:

Don’t forget to let them know that the word Jehovah was inveted by a “Catholic” who misinterpreted Scripture around 1200 A.D.!

But remeber to say this in a positive way with “love” so as not to offend them, just make them think about things. Plant a seed and let the Holy Spirit work His way into their life. Start with small steps and then take larger ones. We cannot force Faith, it must be freely accepted and can years to grow. Just plant thet seed and water it.


#11

Thank you all for replying. Your insight has been very helpful.

God bless


#12

I think it’s also important (very important actually) that the JW’s do not believe we have immortal souls. Thus the when we die we return to the dust of the earth until after armageddon when we will return to a paradise earth.

One of my best friends is a JW, raised that way, and we have had some interesting discussions. At this point, we just agree to disagree. There is no changing her mind, not to mention the bible they use is different than ours and non catholic bibles. They use the New World Translation, and to give you an idea of the difference, do a google for that translation and search John 1:1. Big difference and their passage has a different meaning.

I must say, since conversing with my JW friend about her religion and mine, I have become pretty good in the field of apologetics when dealing with them (we have a kingdom hall right down the road), and I have never felt as strong in my faith as I do today.


#13

[quote=carol marie]Actually the JW’s believe that the Paradise will be just like the “paradise” Adam & Eve experienced in the garden of eden, in full communion with Jehovah God. They believed they will be ruled by the 144,000 annointed who have gone to heaven.
[/quote]

If we know the percentage of a population it takes to govern said population, we can back into a number that will tell us what the population of paradise will be.

Something tells me there will be plenty of elbow room in paradise.


#14

As another who “studied” with the JWs before finding my blessed RCC faith, I remember their machinations well. The kicker for me was their interpretation of Saint John 1:1. I was told it was a “spurious” verse and that the NWT was THE only true translation. If you read in that translation, it reads, “In (the) beginning the Word was and the Word was with God and the Word was a god.” This is their translation so as to disprove the Trinity. (one of 4) Also in their “You Can Live In Paradise Forever” book, there is a drawing of their take on Armageddon which specifically shows a picture of The Virgin being blow through a firestorm. This bunch appeals to people who have weak faith, no faith or a grudge against The RCC. As for paradise, their depictions are always of Ronald Reagan and Sandra Dee look-alikes (in their youth) in various shades of color. The kids are all hugging lions. And all of them are eating from bowls of fruit and veggies. No meat or cake in JW paradise. (can’t fry up the huggable lions!) Sorry if I sound flip, and I know I do, but I’m giving info from one who has “been there, done that.”


#15

That is so funny! I never thought about the pictures but you are so right!!!


#16

[quote=Malachi4U]I like to ask JW’s why they are trying to convert me. I might just be the last of the 144,000 that makes it to heaven thus kicking them out of their spot in heaven! Then invite them to your birthday party so they can share their faith with your friends and have some cake and punch too.:whacky:

I learned that line from a good Mormon/Christian friend of mine.:confused:

Don’t forget to let them know that the word Jehovah was inveted by a “Catholic” who misinterpreted Scripture around 1200 A.D.!

But remeber to say this in a positive way with “love” so as not to offend them, just make them think about things. Plant a seed and let the Holy Spirit work His way into their life. Start with small steps and then take larger ones. We cannot force Faith, it must be freely accepted and can years to grow. Just plant thet seed and water it.
[/quote]

[size=3]I can give rats behind about offending them. They don’t care about offending my entire Catholic brothers and sisters so why not do the same I don’t like them people. They don’t have any respect for the (Virgin Marry) they are not worth the time to open the door.
**(Yeshua above all) **
[/size]


#17

[size=3]There are six things that should not be on earth. Muslims, fly’s

Child molester’s, killers, Jehovah witness and abortion doctors.They are just taking up space
(Yeshua above all )

.

[/size]


#18

[quote=Catholic-Pride][size=3]There are six things that should not be on earth. Muslims[/size], fly’s

Child molester’s, killers, Jehovah witness and abortion doctors.They are just taking up space
(Yeshua above all )

.

[/quote]

Another ‘bleeding-heart’ liberal! :slight_smile: But back to J/W’s. What really shocked me this year is the unwitting revelation of a J/w contact who revealed that the 144,000 will be demi-gods i.e. gods but not God Almighty, they cease to be human. They refuse to believe in the Holy Trinity, but they willingly believe in a ‘multiplicity’. It’s the oldest deception by the enemy, “…you shall be like gods…”


#19

[quote=Jim ov Cov]Another ‘bleeding-heart’ liberal! :slight_smile: But back to J/W’s. What really shocked me this year is the unwitting revelation of a J/w contact who revealed that the 144,000 will be demi-gods i.e. gods but not God Almighty, they cease to be human. They refuse to believe in the Holy Trinity, but they willingly believe in a ‘multiplicity’. It’s the oldest deception by the enemy, “…you shall be like gods…”
[/quote]

[size=3]And a person that thinks he or she is right trying to be perfect. These six people are not even worth the air they breathe. I guess to you it is ok to slam metal tools in to the back of babies heads. I will never respect baby killers no matter what they are worthless animals.
(Yeshua above all )
[/size]


#20

Love the sinner; hate the sin. Jesus and Mary love them. We should too.


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