Jehovah's Witnesses bashing the Church

So I was talking with a very good friend of mine and he had many reasons for hating the Church. He speaks about how Popes have directed the killings of innocent people in the past, starting holy wars and cursaides. He talked about how during the Protestant reformation people who tried to translate the bible were burned at the stake. I explained to him that even Popes have free will and people in the Church can do bad. He said the core of the religion is bad. It celebrates pagan holidays teaches of the Trinity and Popes and the whole Church was doing bad. Can you help me to better explain this. He also showed me the scripture 2 Thessalonians 2: 6-12 trying to say that the Churcg has turned away from God and lost God’s favor because after the apostles have died the Church was torn up by apostates and wolves. He thinks the whole congregation apostised and that Jehovah’s Witnesses have God’s spirit.

I even explained that the Cannon of the bible was put together by Catholics and there would be no Bible without Catholics.

In all honesty, it would be easier for you to chew steel than to reason with a JW.

Better you just pray for this person and keep living the faith, that will be the best witness you can give him.

it’s true, they are very anti-cahtolic and known for it too.

i think your friend nees a history lesson first and foremost though. those issues he raised are far more complex than most people realize

Quick! Get a copy of The Essential Catholic Survival Guide. Published by CA, it is an excellent resource that defends the faith, as well as reveals the flaws and weaknesses in all other denominations.

The JWs are perhaps the most easily defeated of all of them, as their is literally no foundation for their beliefs other than the human imagination. As well, ask him about their litany of 100% failed prophecies.

You could always get a collection of podcasts from here on these subjects and gift it to your friend.

You sure of this? I think Mormons surpass JW in
foundational deficiency. Or maybe it’s a tie.

I do know our local Mormons gave a campaign to
prove to Catholics our values are the same :slight_smile:
Very interesting as they tried to explain how so?
But our local JWs behave the same as always.

Before you even try to explain anything about Catholicism to your friend, read about Jehovah’s Witnesses.They have a very “interesting” history.Talking about people being misled! Years ago I worked w/ a man who was a J.W. he tried to convince me that the Catholic Church was wrong etc.I answered all his objections,and read his materials. The book I read The Truth That Leads to Eternal Life supposedly explains their religion. It contradicts itself as one reads through it. And pray that the Holy Spirit may lead him to the one true church- the one founded by Jesus-the Catholic Church!

What he ^ said.

That, and you might just try that “cannon” LOL
God bless you for defending the faith.
Walking away with a smile might be just as rewarding…that’s what I do.

The only thing you need to say is look at all the terrific work that the Church has done now and throughout the ages, for the poor, the oppressed world wide, for both Catholics and non-Catholics…

From just the Knights of Columbus (and we are less that 10% of all Catholics), last year, we raised more than 160 Million dollars for various charities, and we spent more than 70 Million hours of volunteer service to parishes, community, and else where.

People can find bad apples in any group of people but the vast majority of Catholics are incredibly good people. There may have been a few awful popes, but for the last one hundred years or more and for most of history, we have had some terrific holy popes, many of whom are saints.

All these johnny-come-latelys who can only trace their roots back to the last couple of hundred years are really kidding themselves. Prior to 600 years ago, NONE of these groups, not a single one, were around,… to say they went into hiding and magically reappear in this day and age is totally ridiculous.

Really !!!, did Christians go into hiding for 1400 year or more and then re-establish themselves now ??? anyone who buys this boatload of horse manure should have their head examined… I’m sure you will be able to see clear through their head from one ear out the other. :eek::eek:

Check the tracts from the front page.

Set ground rules: one topic at a time. Review each quote you’re given in context, whether from the Bible or a person.

Ask them to cite their sources, and make time to.follow up later.

I think that there is little doubt that Joseph Smith received a vision, and that it was likely of supernatural origin. But, supernatural visions have two sources: heaven or hell. Pretty clear there. Charles Taze Russell claimed no such visions. Thus, the entire foundation of the JWs is pure imagination and nothing else. Joseph Smith was convinced of the vision, while Russell’s ego convinced him only of his own opinions.

I don’t know if it would serve any purpose to argue with a Jehovah’s Witness, no matter how many facts you have on your side. They are very obstinate, and this guy’s comments sounded more like a rant designed to put his religion’s views to you than any attempt at dialogue and debate.

They often have that “glazed eyes” expression of the “true believer.” Yet, since, at some level in their psyche, they must suspect that something is missing, they elevate themselves by attacking the other. It’s a very human trait - but it’s wrong nevertheless.

Jehovah’s Witnesses are God’s children just as we all are and He loves them too. We can just blow them off as a bunch of crazy’s. Are we not called as Catholics to preach the truth to everybody regardless of how nutty they are or how difficult it may be?

A good resource to help you deal with Jehovah’s Witnesses can be found at (instituteofcatholicculture.org). The lecture, Kingdom of the Cults: Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons & Seventh Day Adventists, has a lot about the history of the Jehovah’s Witnesses as well as strategies to help Catholics in dealing with them.

Reply: The JW’s are misled and the sad thing is I believe people who get drawn into the organisation is because they want to learn about God. Then they start reading all the changed scriptures that support what they are being taught, and as it’s in the Bible they are reading take it as true.

Everything was once pagan and the church claimed back for God days of worship, which if we listened to the lies about our using pagan days, we wouldn’t have any days of worship, because every day is likely a celebration for some sort of paganism.

The Trinity is a word we use for the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, the three persons who are God, so of course we believe in the Trinity.

And the church will prevail as Jesus tells us when he hands the keys to Peter, saying. “Upon this rock I will build my church…”

I hope this helps.

I was once one of Jehovah’s Witnesses as a youth, but now I have returned to the Catholic faith I was baptized in.

Your Witness friend is using flawed logic on you, flawed logic he accepts, but flawed nonetheless. I can demonstrate how none of his objections matter because of my being Catholic of Jewish ancestry.

The history of my people the Jews is not one of a nation of saints. We have had periods in our history where we have been unfaithful to God. Why, even while Moses was bringing the Ten Commandments to us, what were my ancestors doing? They were worshipping an idol calf of gold!

Our first king, Saul, was unfaithful. Solomon, the son of King David, turned from worship of the true God to false gods. The prophet Jeremiah had to preach among a nation that had lost its faith, lost its way and even persecuted him for his faith!

Now, did my people stop worshipping the Lord because of what unfaithful ones in their midst did? Did Jeremiah give up worshipping as a Jew because other Jews were unfaithful? Did this make him abandon his religion?

Let’s go further into history. On my father’s side we have discovered evidence that shows members in my family line lived and practiced Christianity during the time of the apostles in first century Jerusalem. Neat, huh?

Just a couple of years ago, as part of the work on uncovering my family’s past brought to light, I read documents wherein members of my family were called before the Spanish Inquisition–some tortured, some killed, the rest made to leave Spain. We were persecuted by the Church because of our heritage, on the fact of being Jews, even though members of my family were and had been Christians before the Gentiles had come in.

And what did my family do after they were expelled from Europe by the Church for being Catholics of Jewish heritage? Did they leave the Church? NO!

Like Jeremiah of old, they did not leave their faith just because others in their religion were unfaithful. After 15 years of research my family has uncovered a history which contains great persecution from our own Church as well as unshakable fidelity to the very same.

And guess what? About two years ago Spain issued a law of return for Jews–or their descendants–who were sent away during the Inquisition. Now the world realizes how wrong it had been. The Church too acknowledges this. But if they were wrong, that means the stand my family took had been right in the first place!

And my family never left the Church. We also still hold many of our ethnic Jewish customs intact too (nothing that violates Catholic practice however) for we never saw ourselves as becoming less Jewish because we accepted Christ. Why, accepting the Messiah is the epitome of what it means to be a Jew!

God’s truth does not stop being truth just because people lose faith in it. “God be true though every man a liar.” (Romans 3:4) Take for example what the Bible says about his people, even when they are disobedient:

“All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and contrary people.”
I ask then, has God rejected his people? By no means! … The gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.–Romans 10:21-11:36.

This goes for any of God’s people, be they Jews or Christian. God doesn’t throw out the baby with the bathwater, like the Jehovah’s Witnesses do. Your JW friend may think it’s a good reason to abandon your religion because of what unfaithful members do within it. But that shows what kind of constitution he has. Obviously he is all about giving up when it gets rough.

That kind of faith can’t save anybody.

I grew up in a church similar to the JWs, we would even consider JWs to be our fellow cousins (not brothers). If their teaching is any way like the teaching I grew up in the training occurred like this.

  1. The Catholic Church is wrong on this this this this and this.
  2. The Catholic Church is evil.
  3. Since the Catholic Church is wrong in truth and evil in nature therefore we are right by default.

It took me 20 years to get that stupid logic and false history out of my soul, but such is the power of it. The thing is, you will feel right and feel righteous if you have a misrepresented punching-bag enemy to give you that feeling about yourself. That is a powerful emotion.

Just with regard to the Catholic Church celebrating pagan holidays, this is not actually something the JWs came up with. The ones who came up with it were the Puritans in the 1600s and to a lesser extent the Presbyterians. The former then sailed to America. So in the early days of America there was no Christmas day (Thanksgiving was designed to replace it), and there is no recognized public holiday (holy-day) Easter. The JWs then just reiterated what the Puritans claimed. Even Atheists make the same claim, and they don’t realize that they are just regurgitating Puritan argument.

Having done some research on this claim of pagan (because I was taught that too) it is very easy to show that the actual reasons given for making such a claim, are without any real historical support and simply grasping at straws.

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