Jenny McCarthy Fires Back at Critics in New Column: "I Am Not Anti-Vaccine" and "Every Child Is Different"


#21

The above was a response to me I missed before.

This is actually what civil law IS. Stealing harms no just the thief, but the victim so we make it illegal. And murder and rape and so on… We DO make sins that directly harm others besides the sinner illegal all the time. Surely you aren’t arguing that we shouldn’t?


#22

If smallpox suddenly came back, and the US population had to be vaccinated about 350 people would die from complications related to the vaccine.

So, let’s assume the number of people infected would match the rate of people who were hospitalized this flu season with the flu. We’ll use the figure of 430,960 from the '97-98 flu season, which would be incredibly low for smallpox. Average smallpox mortality is 30% (we’ll assume it’s not the nasty strains that kill 90-100%).

That’s 129,288 dead based on the stupidly low numbers I picked to work with.

So, really, you’d have to explain why the minor chance your kid might have medical problems would be more important than, in this case, those 129,288 dead people.

The interesting related question would be, if a person who’s anti-vaccine refuses to have their kid vaccinated, and their kid gets sick, and then get’s my immune compromised kid sick, can I sue them for damages?


#23

It’s incredibly ironic how quickly you turn to use government force against others- the same force that is being used on us Christians because our ideas are considered “diseases” too. It’s totally different, right? Just keep telling yourself that. I guess the desire to use unnecessary force is the same on both sides for some. I will pray for you.

Those are crimes. They directly violate another’s right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Mandating vaccines also directly violates one’s right to liberty. I’m not saying that people should never vaccinate. I’m saying that people shouldn’t be forced to have their kids injected with something unless they’re absolutely okay with it. You’re counting on the idea that the “social/scientific/government/political consensus” is right, so parents shouldn’t have a choice.

I’m saying that even IF (and that’s a big assumption) they ARE, parents have a CHOICE in what goes inside their kids. You think of this as only a health issue, but you’re not seeing the larger issue of freedom. A parent shouldn’t have to ask for “dispensation” not to have their kids vaccinated if their kid has a special condition, or even if they just don’t feel right about it.

What you’re suggesting is using force in one of the most intimate, personal choices a person has. You’re free to stay away from these people, you’re free to congregate with only those who have taken the vaccines, you’re free to give yourself and your child booster shots every year to make sure you don’t ever get infected. But you are not free to decide for their children’s health or what they choose for themselves.

No, I don’t have to explain why violating someone’s right to his/her own body and that of his/her child’s is more important than some theoretical chance that others might contract a disease. If someone is sick they can be kept away, and parents are more than free to insist that their children be sent to schools where the policy is vaccination, but to force someone to be injected with something supposedly preventative because you have a fear is not liberty, my friend.

You can sue anyone for anything. Better to just send your child to where the parents have a vaccination consensus and let those who don’t trust Big Pharma and the government experts, or simply prefer to deal with these matters in different ways, make the decisions they see fit.


#24

Actually, friend, you’re the one who is “just not seeing it”. If you read what I wrote, you’ll note that I specifically stated “in and of itself”. You’re making up scenarios about fires or ponds etc. That wasn’t me. Nobody has ever died from being buckled in. Otoh, people do die from simply being vaccinated, nor are deleterious side effects restricted to death, but also lifelong health problems too.

Anyway, I don’t have a major bone in this fight, but it is disconcerting to hear self-proclaimed Catholics advocating for forced vaccination… very suspicious.


#25

Agreed. You’d think that any religious person would be wary of granting the government any more power these days.


#26

Nobody I’m aware of ever died “from being vaccinated in and of itself” either. It’s a later complication or side effect that rarely does that. Just like it’s a rare side effect of using a seat belt that rarely causes death in vehicles.

You don’t have to submit to vaccination. You’re free to move to Guatemala. A lot freer than vaccine-savvy folks are to avoid exposing their infants and elderly to disease carriers in a society that permits people to omit crucial vaccinations.

Living in community inherently requires commitment to the wellbeing of the whole. It’s perfectly reasonable to demand that people do what is in the common best interest or leave. Does a line have to be drawn as to what that compelling “common best interest” is? You betcha. Is the potential for the return of large scale endemic diseases on the “good” side of that line? You betcha.


#27

And you’re free not to pay for contraceptives and abortions. Just move to Guatemala! How does that sound? Oh, and yeah- the truth is that it’s not that easy, economically and politically to move to another country, so that’s not really an option for most- but you knew that already.

First off, I don’t know what are you worried about if you and your kids are vaccinated.

It’s true that every human community has rules pertaining to the “common interest”. This pertains generally to public behavior and spaces. It may even extend to a ban on taking a substance that affects behavior in public (no public drunkenness, etc.)

But to mandate that everyone must be injected with something, when no disease even currently exists is to go too far and violate human autonomy and dignity. What about people who don’t believe in vaccinations as a religious matter? And do those who don’t choose this because of their own personal non-religious beliefs deserve any less?

By the way, do the Amish have to “move to Guatemala” because they don’t believe in vaccinations? Or some Native American tribes? You have quite the gall to suggest that you have any authority, moral, legal or otherwise, to mandate what others put in their and their children’s bodies.


#28

You think like that because you live in the very sanitary USA of 2014. Come with me to the rural areas of Latin America (fully unvaccinated) or to rural areas of Africa and let’s see if you will keep thinking like that.


#29

Ignorance is bliss. But try telling that to the parents of a dead child whose only sin was to put a needle in their kids arm…

You don’t have to submit to vaccination. You’re free to move to Guatemala.

I don’t have to submit to vaccines, period. Though some would apparently like to see this country turned into a Nazi Germany, unfortunately for them we are not there yet.

Living in community inherently requires commitment to the wellbeing of the whole.

Ok, well when they start sterilizing and euthanizing for the well-being of the whole community, you can feel free to send your children and parents without a fight. That’s your prerogative. You can even sing patriotic songs as your loved ones are being dragged away.

It’s perfectly reasonable to demand that people do what is in the common best interest or leave.

Yes, this is also the reasoning behind euthanasia in certain European countries, as well as China’s one child policy. Nazi Germany decided that it was in the best interest of the whole country that Jews and other “undesirables” be expelled, forced to leave, or interned in work and death camps. That is entirely reasonable!


#30

Ah, yes. Asking everyone to submit to a 1 in millions risk of serious side effects in order to eradicate a disease that would otherwise kill or maim one in every couple thousand is the same thing as Nazi euthanasia campaigns.
How silly of me to miss that! :rolleyes:

People have absolutely no concept of just how serious smallpox, measles, mumps and rubella really are in widespread unvaccinated populations. They enjoy their ignorance thanks to those of us who do the right thing.


#31

Comparing some of the greatest achievements in medicine to the practices of Nazi Germany is dis-engenous.

The right of parents to be morons needs to end when their decisions can affect my kid.


#32

:thumbsup: Exactly.

Because you can’t just vaccinate a child the moment they’re born! Many vaccinations can’t be performed until they’re 2 or 4, etc., and unvaccinated older children can GIVE THEM the disease until that time! You are endangering your entire community by not vaccinating your children with proven vaccines that DO work remarkably and have a ridiculously low chance of side effects!


#33

Is it the fear of the vaccine per se, or the fear of being compelled to do something by the government? Or both?

There always seems to be a tinge of suspicion, and sometimes, paranoia among anti-vaccine people.


#34

I am speaking from secondary source material here. My girlfriend is currently studying virology, pathology, and immunology at Emory, and is working with a disease research lab which works closely (and nearby) the CDC. You can talk about “your choice” not to vaccinate your kids all you want. You are blatantly disregarding those children and adults with birth defects or illnesses that compromise their immune system and rent them medically unable to be vaccinated. These people are forced to rely on society’s immunization, aka herd immunity, to protect themselves from contracting diseases like chicken pox, measles, the flu, etc. When you don’t vaccinate your children, you are actively endangering these people who are unable to be vaccinated.

For evidence of the effects of not getting your children vaccinated, look at Africa today. Look at the dark ages during the spread of the bubonic plague. Look at the world prior to the smallpox vaccine. We have the medical knowledge and technology to prevent the spread of these preventable diseases. To ignore that is irresponsible in my opinion, given the amount of people endangered by those who are anti-vaccine.

I apologize if this comes across as harsh or rude or offensive. This is just a passionate issue for me.


#35

I have seen some pretty bad places. But my principles don’t flip flop just because the situation is bad. Go into Latin America and offer them VOLUNTARY vaccinations, with full disclosure and you’ll have my blessings. It’s not the vaccination that’s the issue- it’s that whole little thing of using force on someone who has not violated anyone’s rights and is well within her own rights.

“Asking”? Why use euphemisms? Use the REAL word applicable here- FORCING. Asking implies choice. Force is force, whether it looks violent or all nice and civilized.

Then go and educate them! Just don’t force anything into their bloodstreams!

No, it’s not. “For the common good” is cry heard by all of the major totalitarian regimes throughout time. Are there legitimate cases where this is true? Sure! But when you try to justify the use of force on people who have committed no crime, you’re going down the old totalitarian path. Or do you think that people minding their own business and tending to their own families as they see fit is a crime?

Honestly, what would Jesus do? Would he tell people they should get vaccinated? Maybe. Would he tell people they had a right to force others to get vaccinated? I have difficulty imagining this response. Maybe the situation is removed enough that its a futile exercise, but that in itself tells me that using force in this case is not a moral duty and could certainly be construed as immoral.

Again- you assume they are being morons. But there are MANY reasons people might not consent to be vaccinated. Some may even be religious. Are you saying that (practicing) Catholics are “morons” because they don’t accept artificial birth control, abortion or cohabitation?

You are being very protective of “your kid”, but so are other parents who believe that vaccination is wrong for their own children. Your beliefs and all the science in the world don’t trump their right to do as they see fit.

If it’s so dangerous maybe your child SHOULD be vaccinated the day he’s born! He could expose other children! After all, your ability to protect his safety is not as important as the rights of the “collective”!

But what are the chances your kid will actually get any of these diseases in your area? Maybe you should just keep him away from “the unvaccinated” in the meantime, just as we all keep our children away from other dangers in the world.

It’s not fear. It’s principle. It’s called liberty.

I have personally been vaccinated both as a child and as an adult, with my consent. And I would not totally rule out future vaccinations, depending on the vaccine and situation. But I retain the right to choose and I defend that right for others.

Let me turn the question around- Why do you always start with a position of unwavering trust towards the government? What has to happen for you to start questioning the intention of government programs? Massive corruption, massive spying, a socialist agenda, a depopulation agenda? Because these are all here.

Are they directly tied to vaccinations? I can’t tell you. Maybe not. Hopefully not. But I can tell you that mercury shouldn’t be in my body, and a whole slew of vaccinations have mercury and other questionable ingredients in them and I’ll be damned if I can’t choose what goes in my body or not, even if its the water of everlasting life. Even God gives us a choice.


#36

I am not disregarding anybody. I respect people’s spaces and wouldn’t go out throwing my child at people. If I believe my child or I are sick, I would quarantine us immediately and seek the proper treatment, if necessary. If people do get sick with very dangerous diseases then, yes, if it needs to government can step in and quarantine people, because they have become truly a danger to others. But an unvaccinated person is not automatically a danger to others, as strange as that might sound to you.

I’m not saying we should ignore the medical knowledge or technology. I’m not saying that nobody, or even most people shouldn’t be vaccinated. I am saying that nobody should be FORCED to put something in their body or their child’s body. Is that so difficult to understand or believe in?

Not at all. I see you are passionate about health and saving people. That’s an honorable pursuit and I support you in it. But when you see your solution as more important than consent and parental choice, your stepping onto a passion of mine- liberty.

ALL of our choices affect others- even small ones. And frankly, if we are truly Catholics, we must consider the ailments of the soul as far more important than the ailments of the body. It is far worse for someone to die in mortal sin than for an innocent child to die of the measles. If you don’t get that, then you are not at all looking through the lens of faith. Instead, you are looking through the secular, physical lens where the only thing that matters is what happens in this world and life is more important than principles.

Of course, we want to preserve both the soul AND the body for as long as possible. But making the body your first and foremost priority and having the principles of liberty take a backseat to them is the wrong thing to do.


#37

Nice figures! Care to cite 'em? Didn’t think so.

Last I checked, certain vaccines are extremely more dangerous than the chance of coming down with the thing they are supposed to guard against. Case in point the gardasil vaccine which harms one out of every 900, yet the chances of hpv turning into cancer are one in 40,000. Not to mention that gardasil only protects against 4 of the hpv strains out of how many? 40+ strains?

How silly of me to miss that!

But let’s be honest here: You’re not asking them to submit. If you had your way you would force them to submit. Last I checked, nazi euthanasia campaigns DID kill or maim one in every couple of thousand… so ya, I stand by the reference and if you’re smart you’ll start distancing yourself from the Nazis, slow and easy there, big fella…

People have absolutely no concept of just how serious smallpox, measles, mumps and rubella really are in widespread unvaccinated populations. They enjoy their ignorance thanks to those of us who do the right thing.

Then I guess you’re preaching to the choir, because we live amongst widespread vaccinated populations.

But to imply sinfulness on the part of those who don’t vaccinate, as you have done here, is an even greater misfortune, because you dare to judge what you have no business judging. But I hope you felt like a superior being while doing so!


#38

Who’s being disengenuous? I’m the one advocating for the Catholic position! You can call on your Catholic brethren to behave like Catholics! Calling for the forced vaccination of peoples is wholly uncatholic, and is a slippery slope besides. What did the popes ever mandate (aside from spiritual medicine, which is totally unrelated to this thread)? No, other posters are siding with the Nazis and the communist Chinese here, not me. View the facts objectively, not emotionally, please. You have a brain… make use of it!

Isn’t this Catholic Answers? Shouldn’t we begin to start thinking as Catholics?

The right of parents to be morons needs to end when their decisions can affect my kid.

Aha, here is the slippery slope! Look at what you just wrote. LOOK at it! It is your own private judgment that other parents are being “morons”. Think! Think! You can do it. You, a Catholic, can use that God-given brain of yours to think! c’mon!

If you can’t do it, I will supply you with the answer, but I must let you at least try. If there are any morons in the world I’m calling on them to THINK!


#39

I refused a flu shot back last fall…did not get the flu…prob cause I see a chiropractor twice a month and keep my immune system healthy. Worst I have gotten is a head cold.

Vaccines are full of mercury and other poisons. Plus some use ABORTED FETAL CELLS!

Parents have a right to keep poison out of their children’s bodies.


#40

Healthy immune system does not mean you’ll be free of disease symptoms.

Inflammatory diseases resulting from various pathogens (e.g., influenza) happen because the body is too good at mounting an immune response. It floods your body with molecules that signal to your cells, “I’m in danger!” And then your organs go nuts and become dysfunctional (e.g., plasma leakage).

The amount of mercury in each vaccine is tiny. So calling it “full” of poisons is not entirely true.

In regards to the cells derived from an aborted child, the Catholic Church, your Catholic Church, has deemed it morally permissible.

The cells have been passaged many, many times. It has not been part of a living being for quite some time. It does not have a soul.

(But yes, it would be nice if an alternative biological source were available.)


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