Jeohvah Witnesses & the Trinity


#1

I was hoping for some guidance on the JW’s and the Trinity. Also hoping you could shed some light on a little church history on our Trinity.

I just finished arguing with a couple at the front door.  They started quoting "The Catholic Encylopedia," dated 1967, and how there was no mention of the "Trinity" until after the 4th century.  Then of course they want on to say the word Trinity does not exist in the bible.  

Any guidance or help in this area would be appreciated.

#2

[quote=Tony B.]I was hoping for some guidance on the JW’s and the Trinity. Also hoping you could shed some light on a little church history on our Trinity.

I just finished arguing with a couple at the front door. They started quoting “The Catholic Encylopedia,” dated 1967, and how there was no mention of the “Trinity” until after the 4th century. Then of course they want on to say the word Trinity does not exist in the bible.

Any guidance or help in this area would be appreciated.
[/quote]

The word bible doesn’t appear in the bible, so what does that mean?

In any authentic translation of scripture, the word Jehovah doesn’t appear either. Jehovah is a corruption of the Hebrew YHWH, or tetragramiton, or the personal name of God.


#3

I can’t find the word 'Kingdom Hall" in there either.


#4

I can’t seem to find in revelations that the 144,000 “sealed witnesses” were American. It says that they are male Jewish virgins.


#5

Jehovah Witnesses most certainly deny the Holy Trinity and they also deny the Deity of Christ.

Albert


#6

I am not completely sure what JWs believe, but the Bible sure states lots about the 3 divine natures in one God.

How about Matthew 28:19 - I always found it interesting it says “name” not “names” – Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

Then Ephesians 4 (among many verses) says there is only one God - There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all.

Jesus is Lord (Romans 6:23) - [left]For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
[/left]

[left]Holy Spirit is God - (Romans 15;14) –
by the power of signs and wonders, by the power of the Holy Spirit, so that from Jerusalem and as far round as Illyricum I have fully preached the gospel of Christ,
[/left]

[left]So if Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all God, yet there is one God, what would that say we have?
[/left]

[left]There are probably some better verses to cite if I did some hard research, as I am not expert. But you get the idea. And, I am not sure what JW believes, where it’s thast Jesus and the Holy Spirit were not God, or that there are 3 Gods - either way it’s pretty easy to refute (he says as a million JWs beg to disagree :D)
[/left]

[left]
[/left]

[left]
[/left]

%between%


#7

Hi Tony,

It is not much use “arguing” with JW’s. Be charitable and pray for them.

You know of course that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are all mentioned in the Bible and they are spoken of as working together as an organic unit. This is the reality of the Trinity, although the “word” is not mentioned.

They of course deny the divinity of Christ. Some JW’s with a “little knowledge” quote John 1, claiming that it does not say “the Word was God” but “God was the Word”. (“theos ên ho logos”= God is the word) Well, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, isn’t it? The fact is that a predicate noun (logos=Word), is never accompanied by an article (ho=the) in Greek. So “ho logos” is the subject of the sentence and not the predicate. There is only one correct translation : The Word was God.

Verbum


#8

Some actual quotes here:
catholic.com/library/god_christ.asp
from the early Church fathers on the deity of Christ, Trinity, etc.


#9

[quote=Scott_Lafrance]I can’t seem to find in revelations that the 144,000 “sealed witnesses” were American. It says that they are male Jewish virgins.
[/quote]

lol,

Is it just me or are the JW’s more of a cult than anything else? There doctrine sort of just makes it up as it goes.

-D


#10

[quote=Darrel]lol,

Is it just me or are the JW’s more of a cult than anything else? There doctrine sort of just makes it up as it goes.

-D
[/quote]

They don’t call it “Making it up” they call it “New Light”. Whenever they get corned on something they have “new light”.


#11

Hi:

Visit my website at www.catholicxjw.com

There are articles on how to dialog with the JWs on the Trinity.

Let me know if I can help.

Jeff Schwehm

www.catholicxjw.com


#12

I would like to thank you all for the info you left. I really enjoyed reading it. I thought I argued with them well, until I read a little in depth of what you left.

Perhaps next time they arrive at my door I will be a little more prepared. Eagerly awaitng. Maybe a conversion?? ha ha! :thumbsup:

Thanks to Jeff for the website.

Take care and all the best.

Tony B.


#13

One good way to tell someone about how the trinity works is Ice, water, and steam. All three are the same and yet can be different forms. you can freeze water and make ice, you can thaw ice and make water, and you can boil water and make steam. they are all different, yet the same.


#14

If Jehova’s Witnesses become a pest, just do what I do. I keep a Book of Mormon in my house. When they come by, I tell them that they can come in my house if they first read the whole Book of Mormon from cover to cover. I haven’t seen any for a while.


#15

How about Matthew 28:19 - I always found it interesting it says “name” not “names” – Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

The “holy spirit” is the wrong translation from the original Greek word “Parakleitos” which means “defender”, “advocatus” in Latin. Indead, Jesus is the first Parakleitos in the Gospel of John, but he says here he will send another Parakleitos (“holy spirit”) to bring justice upon this Earth. Considering that the Aramaic word “Satan” means “offender”, “accusator” (the word “Satan” is a noun, not a (first nor last) name of a person or demon or whatever), we can see clearly that Jesus, as the first Parakleitos, defends the sick, poor, crippled, deaf, etc. people who are often, even in the Jewish community Jesus lived in, accused of crimes they never ever commited. The God of the New Testament (our God) is allergic to any kind of violence.

The “trinity” was an invention by Constantine (a pagan pope, he converted to Christianity a few days before he died), and later on by his followers, in order to keep the Church from falling apart - due to several monks who had a particular vision upon the relation between God, Jesus and “the holy spirit”. Arianism f.e.

Violence is against our Lord’s teachings in the Gospels (allthough they have been altered many times, the core of Jesus’ teachings still breathes through the falsifications made by Catholicism and Protestantism).


#16

Ask for their definition of the Trinity. It is a false definition that no Christian would believe in either. I can’t find the book but I remember that the defined it as 3 Gods in one person.

st julie


#17

This explains the psychological techniques used by Jehova Witnesses on those they wish to convert and how they keep members from leaving.

freeminds.org/psych/beel.htm


#18

Huh??? Wha . . . ? Pope Constantine?


#19

Yes, Constantin the Great, who made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire in the 4th century. He was born Flavius Valerius Constantinus. He put a stop to the Roman persecution of Christians.

Sadly and ironically enough, when he was co-emperor, images of Jesus appeared (fresco’s, etc.) who’s face had a striking resemblance with Constantine’s own face :smiley:


#20

To come to the point of this topic, Jehovah’s Witnesses, IMHO, have a wrong interpretation of Christ’s teachings and of his history in general. F.e., did you know they claim that Jesus did not die on a cross, but was nailed to a large stake? Now, everyone with a little bit of knowledge about Roman history knows that the crucifixion was the common punishment for villains. Why a cross, you could ask? Well, the deterance factor was very great. The people nailed to a cross exposed so to speak their sad fate to others. They had to scare other people off, so that they would think twice before revolting against the Roman Empire. A cross exposes a punishment better so to speak than a stake. That’s why they used a cross. Romans weren’t stupid, you know, certainly not in matters of warfare and violence in general. They had amazing strategic skills. They were able to win a battle with only 2 legions (about 12000 men) against 200000 “barbarians”, purely based on strategy (like playing a game of chess or stratego). In about 1800 years they have killed more people on this planet than even the Holy Inquisition, Hitler or Stalin ever did. That is why, I think, our Lord was born during the Roman times, because they are the greatest symbol of violence this Earth has ever witnessed. When f.e. Caesar had conquered my ancestors, the ancient “Belgae”, and the French Gauls, he celebrated his 1 millionth victim (about 54 bc). He even called my ancestors the bravest of all people, “omnis fortissimi Belgae sunt”, because Ambiorix, leader of the Eburonian tribe, was able to slaugther 1 of his legions and 10 cohorts during a rebellion. Caesar was never able to catch Ambiorix, which has frustrated him until his death (murder).


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