Jesuit dirt


#1

Lately I’ve been reading some of the anti-Catholic literature written by flaming Fundamentalists (particularly that by Jack Chick). While their accusations tend to go shooting in all directions, from homosexual priests to the Whore of Babylon, one of their accusations has me somewhat curious, because I saw some information that backed it up, and from what appeared to be a secular source:
Several times I’ve seen references to all sorts of corruptions in the Jesuit order, such as opposing the Pope, and links to Freemasonry (this was one of the things affirmed by the secular source).
I’m simply wondering how many, if any, of these accusations have any truth behind them.


#2

I know a lot of false hate is thrown at the Jesuits… e.g., one of my Fundamentalist acquaintances claims to have a copy of the “Jesuit oath”, in which they swear to bash the heads of Protestant infants against walls.


#3

I’ve been told that the Pope is a Mason too…not that I believe it.


#4

‘Lately I’ve been reading some of the anti-Catholic literature written by flaming Fundamentalists (particularly that by Jack Chick).’

why? :wink:


#5

i’m entering the jesuits in august (seriously). i’ll let you know if we have to bash any babies. :wink:

see, the jesuits are behind every conspiracy in the world, according to the jack chick folks (God bless them). the jesuits are the most powerful organization in the world, and ‘off’ anyone who disagrees with them.

my confusion comes from this: if they believe this, why don’t they freakin become jesuits??? :slight_smile:


#6

I would like to make a few points:

First, I think that one should keep in mind that the Jesuits are the perfect targets for anti-Catholics. They are, in many ways, the intellectual branch of the Catholic Church. They intellectually fought the Protestants in the Reformation, and they continue to produce sound scholarship today. Jesuits are perhaps the most educated individuals, not only in the Catholic Church, but also in the world. Naturally, anti-Catholics love to defame the Jesuits.

Second, while I know there exist many Jesuits who are loyal to the Church, I also keep in mind that Jesuits today engaged much more frequently than in the past with a secular world which utilizes a post-Enlightenment rather than a Christian mindset. In addition, many Jesuits, especially those at universities, become exposed to certain secular academics. Naturally, it is unfortunate that there are some Jesuits who, because of their academic positions, take more “liberal” stances than other Catholic priests. So, there might be some truth in what Jack Chick says about Jesuits being a little more liberal in morals than others I nontheless doubt, however, that Jesuits are at the forefront in establishing a Third World Order, as Jack Chick suggests. Jack Chick is not a reliable source, and he often overaggerates and expands to the whole Jesuit order certain negative characteristics found in that Society. So, if you want the full truth, avoid Jack Chick and focus on better-researched works.

Third, the issue of homosexuality is most probably a problem for the Jesuits. However, this problem does not affect them alone, but indeed it affects the whole celibate clergy. I mean, with 15% of the male population as homosexuals, you are bound to get a few gays in the Order. Perhaps the problem is greater in the Jesuits if there are more “liberal” theologians in that Order than in other orders. There is a good book, co-authored by an ex-Jesuit, called *Passionate Uncertainty. *It presents numerous interviews with Jesuits and ex-Jesuits, and the book addresses many of the accusations made against the Society of Jesus. However, the book primarily covers the 1960’s-70’s, so the book is not necessarily representative of the present status of the Jesuits.

The best thing to do is recognize that there probably is some truth to several of the accusations. However, recognize that anti-Catholics will latch onto a scandal and attempt to blemish the whole Society of Jesus.

Personally, I have made up my mind that with the Jesuits, like with the Anglicans, it is best not to presume what their beliefs are, and to instead gauge the orthodoxy of each Jesuit as an individual priest.


#7

[quote=challenger]I know a lot of false hate is thrown at the Jesuits… e.g., one of my Fundamentalist acquaintances claims to have a copy of the “Jesuit oath”, in which they swear to bash the heads of Protestant infants against walls.
[/quote]


I actually did read a paper put out by the Masons in the 1950s that said the Masons should bash the heads of Catholic babies against stone walls. Not that the Jesuits would kill babies.


#8

Where did you get the figure of “15% of the male population” is homosexual?


#9

I was taught by the Jesuits. I loved the order. I suggested to my sons as they grew up that I’d be proud in they became Jesuits.

But then I heard from a few sources that the rotten apples have really begun to spoil the Jesuit barrel – that Jesuit seminaries have the biggest out-of-control-gay-priest problem in the Church.

If this is true, God help the Jesuits. And I mean that: God help the Jesuits.

May they become the soldiers of Christ, again.


#10

[quote=jeffreedy789]i’m entering the jesuits in august (seriously). i’ll let you know if we have to bash any babies. :wink:

[/quote]

Congratulations! I’ll pray you have a successful career.

I recently read the new book God’s Soldiers : Adventure, Politics, Intrigue, and Power–A History of the Jesuits. t is written from a secular perspective and covers 400 years of history in less than 400 pages. It’s therefore a bit of an overview. :wink: The author tries to be very balanced between Catholic and Protestant atrocities so as to not pick sides but the SJ comes out very well. The author get a bit dry in the beginning when as he continuously lists one martyr after another. It becomes apparent that the Jesuits played a crucial role in the counter-reformation, the council of Trent, and perhaps are even saving the RCC. They were responsible for teaching many of the prominent atheists and secularists of the Enlightenment but are also responsible for some of the best theological arguments against it. The author is most eloquent debunking the conspiracy theories which seem to have sprung up as a direct result of their effectiveness.


#11

[quote=BibleReader]But then I heard from a few sources that the rotten apples have really begun to spoil the Jesuit barrel – that Jesuit seminaries have the biggest out-of-control-gay-priest problem in the Church.

If this is true, God help the Jesuits. And I mean that: God help the Jesuits.

May they become the soldiers of Christ, again.
[/quote]

My impression is that a lot of the “spoiling” went on maybe 30-40 yrs ago, and the order is on the rebound. I knew a guy who joined the Jesuit novitiate a few years ago, and he was one of the most orthodox young men I knew. I’ve met one or two older Jesuits who were waaaaayyy off the wall, but the younger ones I’ve met all seem really good.


#12

Originally Quoted by FrankvT:

Where did you get the figure of “15% of the male population” is homosexual?

To be honest, I learned that figure several years ago when in high school, and from a book that I was reading (I forget the name of the book.) However, that figure is probably high, and the figure is probably less now. Wikipedia mentions in its article on homosexualityh that the percentage of gay men is 1-10%, but wikipedia is not really an academic source, so this may not be entirely accurate. I imagine that homosexuals try to inflate the percentage to demonstrate that what they feel is “natural” and not uncommon, whereas conservatives try to minimize the numbers as much as possible to demonstrate homosexuality as an abberation from what is the natural norm.

The 15% supposedly comes from a study done in 1998:

A 1998 survey by Christopher Bagley and Pierre Tremblay gave a figure of 15.3% of men who “reported being homosexual to some degree” including “overlapping homosexual (5.9%) and/or bisexual (6.1%) self-identification”. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_sexual_orientation)


#13

The 15% figure is grossly inflated. Kinsey (using a badly skewed test base) came up with a 10% figure, if I recall. A much more respected U of Chicago study has it around 2%. (and the general incidence in the population would seem to support the Chicago study, not Kinsey, Bagley or Tremblay)

The study with Bagley and Tremblay is a survey only. We do not know the questions. It is quite possible that one of them asked: “Have you ever had thoughts with you in a homosexual relationship?” This question can then be used to categorize those who answered “yes” as homosexual, even if they are lifelong heterosexuals. Also, they could simply have added their 6.1% and 5.9% figures. . . .

Surveys are absolutely not to be trusted on their own.

Do NOT trust high school texts on this issue. They are highly politicized.


#14

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