Jesus and Horus share many similarities?


#1

I was watching a movie called Zeitgiest or some such on the internet.

I stated that Jesus is really just a another way of stating that we are in the age of Picies according to the zodiac wheel with many references to fish throughout the bible.

Also the many similarities between many religious figures throughout time such as Horus which shares the Virgin birth, Dec.25 birth, dead for three days and resurrected.

They also said that when Moses came down from Mount Siani with the 10 commandments and found his people worshipping the golden calf he was upset because it was the new age. The age of Picies and that the calf represented the age of Taurus which preceeded the age of Picies. That and age lasts 2150 years according to the zodiac signs in space in relation to where the Earth sits in accordance to the constellation.

Also it is just a way of worshiping the sun as it rises each day and decends each night. Dark vs Light and good vs evil.

God in the centre of his 12 desciples as the Sun is in the centre of 12 signs of the Zodiac.

Also that there is not historical proof that Jesus exsisted at all. That no historian would have written about the events about someone who could walk on water, heal the sick and rise from the dead would have not been written about is curious according to this film.

Also that the Celtic Cross seen in a top of many churches is actually a pagan symbol and not a Christian one symbolizing the centre of the zodiac wheel. Which is why in many old likeness’
of Jesus he is pictured with the circled cross behind his head.

Also that the story of Moses from lifted directly from Sargon.

The filmmaker also when on to suggest that many “gods” share the same attributes as Jesus Christ.

Can anyone comment on any of this?


#2

Hooray, my new “favorite” topic, since I recently went to the library and wrote a 25 billion word article on this:

All About Horus: An Egyptian Copy of Christ?

The author of “Zeitgeist” is relying on basically 5 or 6 bogus sources that are not reliable. I now own them all: Acharya S The Christ Conspiracy (his main source and filled with errors), Christianity Before Christ by John Jackson (mainly contains quotes from other bogus outdated sources, including Graves World’s Sixteen Crucified Saviors), Freke/Gandy The Jesus Mysteries (same problems as Acharya S), Thomas Doane’s old Bible Myths, James G. Frazer’s books (the only scholar cited, but his 19th century scholarship has been superceded and is not accepted today), and Gerald Massey’s books (also outdated, Massey was primarily a poet, he was not an Egyptology scholar although he wrote quite a bit on the topic, his conclusions about Horus/Jesus are extremely speculative and fanciful, etc).

The makers of the “movie” do not refer to the best modern Egyptology sources which are readily available at your local university library (e.g. The Oxford Encyclopedia of Ancient Egypt in multiple volumes). Because of this they get virtually everything wrong on Horus and Egyptian gods.

On the astrology stuff, evangelical biblical scholar Ben Witherington took care of this in a blog post, and I took his best points, enhanced and summarized them in bullet points in my article above. Ancient Judaism/Israel wanted nothing to do with astrology with its worship of the stars as divine beings. The occult and divination in general is condemned in the OT (Deut 18). The makers of “Zeigeist” copy all their “astro-theology” nonsense from Jordan Maxwell (you can Google him).

The Celtic cross is the cross of Celtic or Irish Christianity. It uses a circle. There is nothing pagan or mysterious about it. There are also about a dozen or more other crosses, all with slightly different designs. See the bottom of my article. They can’t all be connected with astrology / paganism.

See also my Parallel Pagan “Saviors” Examined

Phil P


#3

The Nile River and the Mississippi River share many attributes too. That does not make them the same river.


#4

Good point about the rivers. I should have added, here is what Jesus and Horus actually have in common:

(1) they were both of divine-royal descent – Horus was (like Jesus) a lord and a king; Jesus was “King of Kings” and “Lord of Lords” (book of Revelation).

(2) they both worked miracles; the healing miracles of Horus are associated with Horus-the-Child (see my article for details).

(3) Horus was (like Jesus) a “son of God” since he was son of Isis and Osiris (but Horus was not virginally conceived).

(4) they both had murder plots against them – Seth fought with his brother Horus, injured him, but Horus does not die; and Jesus of course was put to death on the cross by the Romans.

That’s about it. The “long list” of so-called “similarities” that “Zeitgeist” uses is copied from one of Gerald Massey’s books, and no Egyptology or Christian scholar accepts those as actual parallels (they are again copied and recycled in the pseudo-scholarship of the books I’ve cited above, but the source I believe is Massey, c. 1900 AD).

Phil P


#5

The funny thing about the “Jesus was a myth” crowd is that, aside from being shunned by even Atheistic academics, they mess up with the parallels. Ressurection in Egyptian mythology is part of the death-rebirth cycle and not a triumph over death. Some stuff they bring up is 100% fabricated. There exists absolutly no Egyptian source that says Horus was born of a virgin, they all describe his mother as Isis (a fertility goddess mind you) and Osiris was his father. Sometimes the copulation was described in detail

The whole thing about Astrology is moot since first off, the Hebrews would not have used the Hellenic Zodiac and if they used any it would of been the Babylonian Zodiac which is similar but not identical (for example, the Babylonian equivalent of “Aquarius” is a malicious spirit of flood)

And even if their absolute rape of Egyptian had truth, they still are taking everything out of context. Using their logic you could say that Hitler=Horus


#6

Ok, I will look into this further at any rate. I am just learning about the CC and am due to start RCIA in the fall and was worried about this.

It seems that no matter what the subject is there is some plausible sounding conspiracy from quasi-intellectual types…

Thanks.


#7

Well, they each have five letters in their name; two vowels separating three consonants; and both names end in us. :smiley:


#8

Exactly, IHF.

The wind and waves (Matt 14:29-33) will always be present as long as we’re alive on the earth. Keep your eyes fixed on Jesus and you won’t ever go wrong.

In addition to the catechism, I would strongly recommend “The Case for Christ” by Lee Strobel. It’ll help set the record straight for you.

SK


#9

I’m going to go completely in left-field here, but Horus and Isis are dark beings. I’ve met them and spoke to them, along with Pan through exorcisms. Nasty people I’d say. When I reminded Isis of what Moses and Jehovah did to the Egyptians, they didn’t have much to say after that :smiley:

They are dark.

Peace…

MW


#10

<< but Horus and Isis are dark beings. I’ve met them and spoke to them, along with Pan through exorcisms. Nasty people I’d say. When I reminded Isis of what Moses and Jehovah did to the Egyptians, they didn’t have much to say after that >>

Um :stuck_out_tongue: OK. In exorcisms? Well if those were real exorcisms the dark beings would be what the Bible calls “demons” (Greek: δαίμων or ðaïmon ). I’m sure demons would just love people to believe the stuff in Zeitgeist, that Horus copied Jesus, 9/11 was an “inside job”, and that giant alligators live in the sewers, etc. :eek:

Phil P


#11

The dark beings are demons. All the pagan gods were/are demons. I use the term interchangeably. Light beings-angels, dark beings-demons. It’s rather simplistic, but covers it pretty well. I did warn you that I was coming from left field. When I read your article, it simply reminded me of who they are and my experiences with them.

Yes, in exorcisms. I don’t see anything really strange about that. Many people have experienced the dark ones, either by hauntings, contracts with them or by expelling them. Over time, it became natural to me to interact with them in an adversarial way and to employ the help of angels.

By the way, have you ever heard of the gods (demons, dark ones), Naphia and Nalia? I don’t know what pantheon they come from, but I supposed they were Egyptian. Seth I know. He is nasty too.

Addition: Do you not believe in the spirit world of angels and demons? Just wondering.

Peace…

MW


#12

**Seth murdered his brother Osiris, who was avenged by his son Horus. **

**One curious detail - one form of destroying the influence of Seth, was to eat hippotamus-shaped cakes which symbolised him; the shape being that of the animal of which Seth had assumed the appearance during his feud with Horus. **

Doubtless this proves that Jesus is based on Seth.

That’s about it. The “long list” of so-called “similarities” that “Zeitgeist” uses is copied from one of Gerald Massey’s books, and no Egyptology or Christian scholar accepts those as actual parallels (they are again copied and recycled in the pseudo-scholarship of the books I’ve cited above, but the source I believe is Massey, c. 1900 AD).

Phil P

##** You’ve overlooked something terribly important:**
[LIST]
*]they are both written about in English
*]Neither was English-speaking
*]both were mammals
*]they’re both male
*]they both have mothers
*]they both attract idiotic theories spun by people who are totally ignorant of Egyptian gods & Palestinian Judaism
*]which is why they are both champion moneyspinners for those who write books claiming they are closely related[/LIST]**So, you see, they are really terribly terribly alike :smiley: **


#13

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Careful Phil; soon Zeitgeist inspired threads will threaten to crowd out the evolution ones …


#14

Glad to have you coming aboard, IHF. In addition to your regular studies, I hope you’ll spend some time here in the forums. I’ve learned a lot here since signing on a little while back - I hope you will too.


#15

MW << Addition: Do you not believe in the spirit world of angels and demons? Just wondering. Peace… >>

Yeah, I accept there is the spirit world of angels and demons. I’m just not sure there is actually a demon associated with every one of the Egyptian gods and godesses. A demon may however taken on the “name” of an ancient god (which are indeed false gods according to Judaeo-Christian tradition). For example, I’m thinking of the “spirit guide” named “Seth” who possessed Jane Roberts (she picked up the “spirit” from using a Oujia Board).

St. Paul does say the “gods” that the pagans worship are demons (1 Cor 10:20ff), depending how that text should be interpreted.

Phil P


#16

Gottle << One curious detail - one form of destroying the influence of Seth, was to eat hippotamus-shaped cakes which symbolised him; the shape being that of the animal of which Seth had assumed the appearance during his feud with Horus. Doubtless this proves that Jesus is based on Seth. >>

Yeah the Hippo thing is really strange. In one version of the Horus-Seth battle myth, they turn themselves into Hippos that fight. From my article:

A fuller and more scandalous description of the trial survives in Papyrus Chester Beatty I written in the reign of Ramesses V (Dynasty XX). The sun-god in this tribunal is not sympathetic to Horus’ case to be ruler of Egypt, dismissing him as a youngster with halitosis and preferring the older claimant Seth. Horus pleads that he is being defrauded of his lawful patrimony. Then occurs a series of episodes involving Horus and Seth, each trying to outwit the other and win over the court. In one contest, the two gods are hippopotamuses who intend to see if they can remain submerged under water for three months. Isis refuses to take this opportunity of killing Seth with a harpoon. Horus, enraged, savagely attacks his mother and escapes into the desert. Seth finds him and cuts out both his eyes. Hathor, using gazelle’s milk, restores Horus’ eyes.

I don’t remember Hippopotami :stuck_out_tongue: mentioned in the Gospels, do you?

Funny, none of this is mentioned in “Zeitgeist.” Probably because you have to go to a library like I did to find it. My sources for above: see Oxford Encyclopedia of Ancient Egypt, volume 2, “Horus” p. 120; Hart, Routledge Dictionary of Egyptian gods and goddesses, “Horus” p. 72-73.

Phil P


#17

The Celtic Cross, is slightly based on pagan symbology.
The circle is a widely used pagan symbol, represents the Sun god.
A handy way to teach an illiterate people. Placing a symbol of what they consider to be god on a cross.
The upright part of the cross was also used to tell stories… 12 Apostles often appear here.

The circle was used in many places. Greece, Near East etc
hence why alot of Statues, Paintings etc have Halos. Symbolising the Divine or Holiness


#18

Annatar << The Celtic Cross, is slightly based on pagan symbology. The circle is a widely used pagan symbol, represents the Sun god. >>

The circle is also a geometric shape. A circle is a circle. It could represent God being infinite. Show me a reputable scholarly source that shows “the circle on the Celtic Cross is a pagan symbol of the sun god.”

What I have on that cross: it is a characteristic symbol of Celtic Christianity, forming a major part of Celtic art. It is also referred to as the high cross, Irish Cross, or the Cross of Iona. There are many representations of the Christian cross through history:

– the Latin cross (used from the 2nd-3rd century AD);
– the Greek cross;
– the cross of Calvary or Graded Cross;
– the Celtic cross distinguished by the circle and intricate designs;
– the Russian Orthodox cross consists of three bars, the lowest bar slanted, the top bar represents “INRI” sign placed over Jesus’ head;
– the papal cross is the official symbol of the papacy, the three bars of the cross most likely represent the three realms of the Pope’s authority;
– the baptismal cross has eight points, symbolizing regeneration, formed by combining the Greek cross with the Greek letter chi (X), the first letter of “Christ” in Greek;
– the budded cross, its trefoils represent the Trinity;
– the conqueror’s or victor’s cross is another Greek cross;
– the triumphant cross with orb represents Christ’s reign over the world;
– an inverted cross is the cross of St. Peter who according to tradition was crucified upside down because he felt unworthy to die the same way as Christ.

Many of these have circles, lines, or other symbols along with the lower case “t” shape of the cross. Is there any particular reason you think the Celtic or Irish cross comes from paganism, and not all these other crosses?

I do not accept a darn thing in “Zeitgeist” if it can’t be backed up with scholarship. Nothing in that film that I have checked out he gets right. Same with the Da Vinci Code. But here are two sources that may help you:

Celtic Cross History and Symbolism
Wikipedia on the Celtic Cross

There is a problem of course. The Celtic crosses (various shapes and sizes) according to these articles date from the 7th century AD and later. So you also have to show, if the Celtic cross indeed “comes from paganism” – how that would influence and what this has to do with Christianity of the first century, i.e. the Catholic Church began by Jesus, His apostles, and their immediate successor bishops, etc. The main point of “Zeitgeist” is that the original first-century Christianity is a COPY of the pagan ideas found in other cultures.

It is equally irrelevant to show that the Persian/Roman god Mithras was born on Dec 25th, and ah ha! Jesus also was born on Dec 25th. The problem here is that date (although initially connected with paganism) wasn’t adopted by the Catholic Church until sometime in the 4th century AD. The Church adopting a pagan date much later has nothing to do with the Catholic Christianity founded by Jesus and His apostles in the first century.

The “halo” is indeed a Greek/Roman symbol, what I have on that: The halo (or nimbus) found in Christian art was used by a number of pre-Christian cultures, including the Greeks and Romans. For example, Roman emperors were depicted on coins with radiantly lit heads. Christians gradually appropriated this cultural element and used it for Christian art. Moses’ face radiated light after he came down from Mount Sinai (Exod 34:29-35) and Jesus’ face at the Transfiguration “shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light” (Matt 17:2). The use of halos in Christian iconography is simply the Church recognizing the usefulness of an artistic motif.

Phil P


#19

I have no problem with the Church using a pagan symbol to convert peoples. The use of a circle to represent a god, is just that a symbol. Symbols only have the meaning which you place in them.
EG swatsitka… nowadays (nearly) everyone would say - Nazi. It was not always so. Buddism, and other eastern traditions faiths etc used the symbol.
If the Church used an old pagan symbol it was to get an idea across. The symbol was endowed with new meaning.

Nothing wrong with it!


#20

Thats what we’ve been always taught here in Ireland.

If I can dredge up stuff in regards to this I will.

But its hardly a big deal


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