Jesus Birthday?

Of all the things that the Church holds onto, why dont we know the true birthday of Jesus?

The fathers of our Church knew him personally, why didnt they know his birthday?

It doesn’t really matter does it? The Apostles hardly understood the mission of Jesus until after the resurrection never mind when his birthday was.
I have many friends I’ve had for years and I couldn’t tell you when their birthday is.

Yes it matters to me.

And I am sorry you have friends and do not know their birthdays.

[quote=John Paul III]Yes it matters to me.

And I am sorry you have friends and do not know their birthdays.

I don’t know if this is true or not… but I’ve heard that his birth date wasn’t recorded because mostly the pagans kept track of birthdates because they believed in astrology & felt that one’s life was pretty much maped out based on the date of birth. Faithful Jews didn’t keep track of birthdays.

Has anyone else heard that theory?

[quote=John Paul III]Yes it matters to me.

And I am sorry you have friends and do not know their birthdays.

What does it matter to you? Does knowing or not knowing affect your faith?

[quote=carol marie]I don’t know if this is true or not… but I’ve heard that his birth date wasn’t recorded because mostly the pagans kept track of birthdates because they believed in astrology & felt that one’s life was pretty much maped out based on the date of birth. Faithful Jews didn’t keep track of birthdays.

Has anyone else heard that theory?

Now that is a good answer that in the old Jewish traditions that they did not record birthdays, therefore looking back we do not have record of his actual birth.

[quote=thistle]What does it matter to you? Does knowing or not knowing affect your faith?

Leading up to Jesus birth, in Jewish tradtion they knew of the time, perhaps even the season, the world knew of this day in all of the different customs and traditions, yet our Church cannot say the date it happened?

From a reasonable standpoint I think thats not only sad but pathetic. Does this change my faith, most days no, my faith in the Church and Jesus Christ is stronger than ever, but I also take the reasonable route and our Church, our faith is very reasonable.

You posted on this thread, So you know what I think. When you think of it as the Incarnation, not simply Jesus’ brithday, then it becomes possible to believe that December 25th is truly the Incarnation, preserved for us by the Holy Spirit through His Church.

Did the church just pick an arbitrary date? We don’t know how they chose it, only when they made it official. Some modenist historians authoritatively conclude that Church chose that date all because a pagan Roman festival that already had that date.

Doesn’t that just take the wind out of everyone’s sails?

I think we have that reaction because it doesn’t seem true to us. It doesn’t seem that Christians would completely forget the day of the Incarnation, and have to make one up out of no where when it came time for the Church to make it official. And it doesn’t seem likely that the Church would make such a big decision without recourse to prayer, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

The following excerpt is from Maria Valtorta’s Poem of the Man-God. It is a private revelation and no one has to believe it. Further, there is controversy over this revelation with strong opinions on both sides. It proports to be verbatim accounts of visions given to Valtorta by our Lord. I read it thinking, “It could be true” but now I strongly beleive it is true. I’d change my mind if the Magisterium itself ruled otherwise.

I’m sharing it because I am delighted with it and because if relates to the question of this thread, “When is the birth of Christ?”

[It is almost the Feast of the Lights, which celebrates Puritication. It is the frist year of the ministry, and Peter is speaking with Our Lord]:

[Peter] “What shall we do now that they will all be staying home for the feast?”

[Jesus] “Our women will be lighting the lamps in our place.”

[Peter] “I am sorry…It is the first year that I do not see them being lit in my house, or that I do not light them myself.”

[Jesus] “You are a big baby. We will light the lamps, too. So you will not be in a sulk any longer. And you will be the very one to light them.”

[Peter] “Me? Not I, Lord. You are the Head of our family. It’s for You to light them.”

[Jesus] “I am the lamp which is always lit… and I would like you all to be such, as well. I am the eternal Puritication, Peter. Did you know that I was born on the twenty-fifth of Chislev?” [Chislev is December]

“I wonder how many lamps?” asks Peter full of admiration.

“It was impossible to count them… All the stars in the sky…”…

[Soon, later they are at Lazurus’s house. It is an enchanting evening as described by Valtorta, ablaze with many lamps for the Feast of Lights. You truly feel as if you are there. [/color]

At the festive meal is Lazurus, Martha, servants, Disciples, and the shepherds, recently reunited with Jesus, after 30 years of faith and hope - and persecution. The shepherds are feeling at first a bit out of place in Lazurus’ fine home, but they warm up when they begin to speak of that Holy night. Peter insists on hearing the whole story. It is an endearing pitch, as he complains of being in the dark about the story of Jesus’ birth, concluding with]:

“…Tell your Peter. Then I will tell the people. If not, I have already told You, what can I tell them? I know nothing of the past, I am no good at explaining the prophecies and the Book, the future… oh! poor me! So what shall I evangelise?”

[So Jesus begins to speak of his Mother, the spotless tabernacle, concieved of two just parents… [/color]

He speaks of her conception, and He says]: “…And the World, from that moment, had the Adoring Maid; and God, from that moment, could look at a spot on the earth without feeling disgusted…”

[Of Her parents]: "…Oh, Truly the grandparents of the eternal Abel gave God the early fruit of their property, they gave Him back all their goods, and they died because they had given everything back to Him, Who had given it to them!

[Her childhood]: "My Mother was the Maid of the Temple from Her third to Her fifteenth year and She hastened the coming of Christ with the power of her love…

[Joseph]: “…Joseph of Nazareth was just man. The Lily of God could be given only to him, and he was he only one to have it. And, being an angel both in his body and his soul, he loved as the angels of God love…”

[Jesus says much more, and asks a shepherd to go on. Elias, says]:

[this post is completed on the next post]

[Continued from previous post]

"Towards evening I met a young smiling woman riding a liittle donkey. There was a man with Her. He asked for some milk and information. I told him what I knew… Then night fell… and a great light… and we went out [from the earlier account, you know they were in a rustic large low shed in the field and were awakened by the brilliant pearly light coming in]… and Levi [the very young shepherd among them] saw an angel near the pen. [he saw it first, coming, then they all saw it] And the Angel said: “The Savior is Born”. It was the dead of the night. And the sky was full of stars. But their light faded in the light of the Angel and of thousands and thousands of angels… (Elias still weeps remembering). And the Angel said to us: “Go and worship Him. He is in a little stable, in a manger, between two animals… You will find a little Baby wrapped in poor swaddling clothes…” Oh! How bright the Angel was when saying these words!.. Do you remember, Levi, how his wings emitted flames when, after bowing to mention the Saviour, he said: “…Who is Christ the Lord”?

“Oh! If I remember! And the voices of the thousands of angels? Oh! …“Glory to God in the Highest Heaven and peace on earth to men of good will!” That music is still here, in me, and it carries me to Heaven every time I hear it.” and Levi raises an ecstatic face shining with tears.

Well there is another long lovely paragraph by the shepherds but I am typing this and am not sure who wants to read it. Someone will be delighted with it, as I am whenever I read it.

It makes sense to me and rings true to me. And why would not Peter, head of the Chrurch, whom it says here once took delight in the feast of lIghts - why would he not pray for our Church to ensure not only that we celebrate it on the right day but we celebrate it as they (the Apostles) did and as Jesus did - with lights, on the Feast of Lights, for the Light of the World?

not to get too far off track here . . .

“Cardinal Ratzinger referred to [The Poem of the Man-God] as ‘a lump of theological absurdities.’” - [font=Arial]This Rock, June 1998[/font]

As for the why we don’t know the exact date, the SDA’s use the argument that only pagans kept track of birthdays. (They subsequently teach that Christians should not celebrate Christmas because only pagans celebrate birthdays, but what do they know?)

forthright - there is a discussion of that as well as a pretty through discusion of any critique of The Poem of the Man-God that could be dug up found here:

Also, what are SDA?s

[quote=Eliza10]Also, what are SDA?s

Seventh Day Adventists

A thorough analysis of the actual historical birth day of Jesus has been done in an amazing research document, which is available for free download here:

Poem of the Man-God Research Document

In this e-book, there is a chapter entitled:

“Proof (or a Substantiating Factor) by its Astronomic Substantiation of the Bimillenial Tradition that Christ Was Born on December 25, 1 B.C., its Contributions that Enable a Perfect Calendrical Understanding of the Fulfillment of the 70 Week Messianic Prophecy of Daniel, and the Fact that Information in the Poem Has Enabled University Professors and Ancient Calendar Specialists to Exactly Date Almost Every Event in the Canonized Gospels Down to the Year, Month, Part of the Month, and Often Day. Also, a Remarkable Discovery that Jesus’ Age of Death Was Exactly 33.3 Years at 3 p.m. and His Age from Birth Was Exactly 33.333 Years (with No Rounding) When He Rose on the 3rd Day, and Other Notable “Coincidences” with the Divine Number 3 (Such as NASA’s Report that the Sun’s Mass is 333 Thousand Times that of the Earth)”

That chapter provides significant evidence that Christ was truly born in 1 B.C. If you don’t believe me, just take a look at it and you will be surprised.

This e-book discusses the revelations to the controverted (but in actuality, Church-approved) Italian mystic Maria Valtorta whose writings St. Padre Pio commanded multiple spiritual children of his to read. Her revelations have been proven by multiple areas of science to be 99.6% historically accurate and have allowed university professors and ancient calendar specialists to actually date exact dates of Our Lord’s life.

In fact, Blessed Gabriel Allegra was beatified by Pope Benedict XVI on September 29, 2012 and Blessed Gabriel Allegra, O.F.M. was an outspoken and avid long-time supporter of Maria Valtorta and spent the latter years of his life studying, promoting, and defending the Poem of the Man-God (Maria Valtorta’s major work).

Also check out the trailer about this e-book here:

TRAILER (full-length) - Maria Valtorta Research Document (8 minutes, 2 seconds)

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