Jesus Christ is God

God in God, Light from Light, true God from true God

Of course we all know, that Jesus Christ is God in the Father and the Holy Spirit. Even all Christian split-groups confess this. Ever more so, as Jesus said in Mt 28,18: All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.

Yesterday a friend and I exchanged mails to this, as I pondered almost all my life, that none of the people who wanted to kill Jesus Christ - and finally did as He gave His life voluntarily, had the insight, that Christ is God. John 10,18: No one takes My life away from Me, but I lay it down of My own free will. I have the authority to lay it down, and I have the authority to take it back again. This order I received from My Father.

It’s further more absolutely incomprehensible, as very many witnessed Jesus healing of so many, that in sight of Christ’s many cures no human being could heal - such as blind and lame, people still did not see God in Jesus up to our time and even many still don’t in the „Christian West“. Here, where freedom of expression is valued, we even find many sides in the net, expressing that Jesus was mad. A statement which condemns itself and him who postulate such hellish stuff. Those to whom understanding is not given, even use the Bible to cement such statements - like Mark 3,21. There are lots of similar allegations - many accusations against God, all constructed to make the Gospel a fake. Aim is: To scatter doubts, same as the enemy does in Mt 13,24 - 30.

It was not only these full recoveries of the sick Jesus healed witnessed by so many, but countless other signs too. Just take for one, the cleansing of the Temple. The temple’s security sure would have successfully bashed back even 10 or 20 people. Not so with this one Jesus Christ! Or when they often desired to capture and kill Him. He simply walked amidst through them and away. Mark 4,30.

And when Jesus let Himself finally being taken, then at first the soldiers all collapsed! John 18,6. Surprising they all in spite lay hand on Him after that tremendous shock. Then all saw, that Christ healed the cut off Malchus’ ear, St. Peter had cut off with his sword in John 18,10. All witnessed this. No consequences - no change in mind.
From the transformation of water into wine at the wedding of Cana, up to His death on the cross when the sun got dark and the earthquake occurred, and the temple’s curtain was torn in two, from top to bottom Mt 27,51, the bible is full of divine miracles Christ achieved. How come, that all who witnessed this, did all in spite not come to the insight
THIS IS GOD as He often enough said. He who saw Me, has seen the Father. John 6,46

Of course it was God’s aim and will to rescue the world out of all people’s sins, so they had a chance again, to get into heaven, therefore God gave out of love His begotten Son to redeem us.
But sure God didn’t darken the minds of all these blind, so they couldn’t recognize the Messiah. On the contrary; God punihed those who did not recognised Him.

Well - a few did believe in the sight of these many occurrences that proved Christ’s divinity. - Heathens did in Mt 27,54 Now when the Roman centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and what took place, they were extremely terrified and said, “Truly this one was God’s Son!” But also many Jews did, as we Christians arose from Judaism; of that tree Paul mentioned in Romans 11,17.

Not surprising, that ever since the formerly Gods Own Beloved People had severe problems to survive throughout all centuries after they did not recognize the Messiah. Everywhere they where not welcome, hated and persecuted - up to this day with all the troubles in Israel and the hatred they face all around Israel.
But let’s remember St. Paul saying, that same might happen to Christians and it will, when Christians go on disregarding Jesus Christ - even pondering if He at all was the Messiah or even „insane“ as in many internet-pages alleged. Romans 11,20: They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but fear! For if God did not spare the natural branches, perhaps He will not spare you.

A friend said, that the pouring in of Moslems, most of them with strong belief in Islam, is a deadly danger to Christianity. I opposed this, for even before this, many in the West turned to odd religions such as Buddhism, esoteric and others. Islam can be dangerous only then, when Christian belief is doubted, or seen as just one out of many religions. There is but one truth, not one out of many truths! To him who is firmly rooted in Christian truth, other religions don’t matter and we can convert them. If we doubt, we are a toasted leaf in the wind - without any stable rooting, its buffeted to here and there and finally disappears.

Ephesians 3,17: Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith, so that, because you have been rooted and grounded in love, you may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and thus to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, so that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God.

Yours
Bruno

Do you have question or a point?

shouldn’t this be under apologetics?

I had written it somewhere else, then thanks heavens copied and saved - submitted, and was thrown out. So, I again logged in but didn’t see it was another place - pasted the saved text and submitted. Well, if the administrator wants to delete it here or replace to elsewhere, please go ahead.
I anyway have to often go back and forth when writing, as with many words I don’t know how to spell, then it often happened that this switching to and fro that spelling-site
dict.cc/?s=aufmerksam+machen
I am thrown out.

The reason why I posted it was, that US-friends called my attention to lots of sides which headline like “Jesus Christ was insane”. Written of course by church-haters and atheists, who aim to get weak in believe off christian faith, convincing them that Jesus Christ was a human being only - just like you and I.

Here too I sometimes read doubts, and so - as well as in my US-MailCircle where I posted same, tried to give readers some counter-arguments on hand in the way, that there are indeed countless proves that Jesus Christ always was and is God, to Him is given all might in heaven and on earth - stated though Christ Himself in Mt 28,18 and St. Paul pointed at this in 1 Kor 15,6 with the appearance of Christ to very many after His resurrection.

Rather stubborn atheists keep repeading that was told to the guard by the Chief Priests, that watched over Christ’s grave. See Mat 28,12: …they gave a large sum of money to the soldiers, telling them, “You are to say, ‘His disciples came at night and stole his body while we were asleep.’ If this matter is heard before the governor, we will satisfy him and keep you out of trouble.” So they took the money and did as they were instructed. This lie is not only told among the Jews up to this day, but also by all doubters, gnostics, atheists and mockers about the Gospel.

Christ’s Resurrection is the core of belief. He who doubts this in whatever way, is aeons away from belief. Paul emphasized this in 1Cor 15,14: if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is futile and your faith is empty.

However, many among us we meet every day, beliefe that Jesus Christ, God from God, never was even divine. So, let’s we shielded to fight such linguistic battles. But keep in mind, that many of our Cristian brothers and sisters are prosecuted and tortured for their Christian belief and let’s ask ourselves, if we too would prefer to be tortured reather then to hide our belief or even worse - to deny it…

So: The here found question: „Do you have question or a point?" Is easy to be answered: No, I don’t have any question, as for ever since there is internet, I work as Apologist in countless forums. But also in direct talks. And „the point“ is; to give as many as possible the weapons of God to fight stubborn doubts about Jesus Christ. For he who lacks belief, has nothing, owns nil, it literally lost and a very poor thing.

Even if you all got these weapons of God - founded belief - then it’s still a relieving necessety to exchange thoughts and means about the broght beauti and life-fulfilling knowledge about our relation to God.
These weapons and armor of God are the:
Helmet of Salvation • Sword of the Spirit • Loins girt with truth • Breastplate of Righeousness • Shield of Faith • Feet shod with Preparation of the Gospel of Peace.

Yours
Bruno

THANK YOU

Every “coin” [story] has two sides

Despite the bleak picture you paint of unbelief the Early RCC grew through the fertilized Blood of Martyrs.

Many of those recipients of the miracles and those that witnessed them became the 1st Catholic-Christians.

God always remains in charge:thumbsup:

GBY

Jesus Christ is indeed a God,

But do not mistake him for the all powerful Father.

Who mistakes Jesus Christ with the Father? Not me. I wrote: "Of course we all know, that Jesus Christ is God in the Father and the Holy Spirit. Even all Christian split-groups confess this. Ever more so, as Jesus said in Mt 28,18: All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me". (Given to me, indicates that The Father gave it to Jesus). Still: “He who saw Me, has seen the Father” John 14,9.

Neither can we ever say “a” God, for there is ONE God - not three - nor any others. The many gods other religions adore, are dead gods (even some with elephant- or ape heads).

God remains always in Charge, too is a challenge to say, for in which respect is God in charge when here on earth sin reigns - in wars, cheating, lie, murder and wide-spead atheism?
The Prince of the World is in charge for this godless doing.

The indeed bleak picture of unbelief in today’s society, has nothing at all to do with the absolute strength in belief of The Early Church first centuries after Christ, though blood of martyrs is shed today all the same. Neither has it to do with our today’s Church under Pope Francis, who brought many back to Church. Church remains The Mystical Body of Christ throughout all times.

But indeed we might ask today again as Jesus did in Luke 18,8: "When the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on earth?”
For the faith in today’s word is very airy. For which percentage of average people you ask, will agree and answer by a firm YES, when you ask them about their absolute belief in Christ? The vast majority will forbearingly smile at such question, or even mock about belief.

Huh?

John 10:30
I and the Father are one.:thumbsup:

John 1: 1-15
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [2] The same was in the beginning with God. [3] All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made. [4] In him was life, and the life was the light of men. [5] And the light shineth in darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

[6] There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. [7] This man came for a witness, to give testimony of the light, that all men might believe through him. [8] He was not the light, but was to give testimony of the light. [9] That was the true light, which enlighteneth every man that cometh into this world. [10] He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

[11] He came unto his own, and his own received him not. [12] But as many as received him, he gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in his name. [13] Who are born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. [14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

GBY

He’s the all-powerful Son, coeternal and coequal with the Father, no less in dignity or power in accordance to his divine nature.

Wait, are you an Arian or something? Because what you just said, unless I misunderstand you, is heretical at a very foundational level.

It’s impossible to be “a God”, which implies there are more than one. There is only God and there can never be another God.

Jesus is a God, that’s hardly a controversial statement in Catholicism.

No. Jesus is God, not “a God.” There are not multiple Gods.

I never said there was. Jesus is a God. Fact. End of story.

So if you agree there is one God, why do you say “a” God? That implies that you think there are more.

Jesus is a God
The Father is a God
The Holy Spirit is a God
They all make 1 God with 3 beings.

The Son and Holy Spirit are equal and obedient to the Father.

This means he was with the Father, but he is not actually the same as the father.

Agreed. That is a key point of the orthodox doctrine of the Trinity.

The Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God. But there are not three Gods, but one God.

The Father is not the Son or the Spirit, the Son is not the Father or the Spirit, the Spirit is not the Father or the Son.

This seems to be your belief. However, you happen to use terminology (“a God”) that is more often used to express heretical ideas opposed to the orthodox doctrine of the Trinity.

It’s further more absolutely incomprehensible, as very many witnessed Jesus healing of so many, that in sight of Christ’s many cures no human being could heal - such as blind and lame, people still did not see God in Jesus up to our time and even many still don’t in the „Christian West“.

Are other miracle-workers throughout the ages, acting on power given to them by their Creator, to be considered divinity?

We see many figures throughout history with gifts of healing, some even in the Bible, such as Elijah. Would Elijah be considered divinity? What about the many miracles of the Creator performed through the hand of Moses?

At what point does the Creator become the same as the human being through whom the miracles are being enacted?

If mortal men should become “sons of G-d” as described in John 1:12, do they then take on any form of the divine nature of the Creator?

Yours „End of story" on previous page sounds not just aggressive, but presumptuous too. Such aggressive replies we as Christians, as love is foundation of Christianity must avoid expressions that sound like „I am right, and you better shut up“.

In fact - though you claim your expression „a God“ does not contradict all Christian’s doctrine about Jesus Christ. It does! It even does strongly so, which any Priest will confirm to you - if you dare to ask one.

Several here tried to explain to you kindly, that obvious rules of language always indicate that „a“ is one out of many. A three - a human - a cloud. You’d never say „a earth“ as there is but one earth, or „a USA“ as there are not more or even many USA’s.

Take a very profane explanation of a picture - like a garden. There you see the picture of a tree, that of a fence and that of a child on the lawn. All 3 or even more pictures painted in high skill and assembled in that one piece of art. You couldn’t say the tree is a picture - the child is a picture - the fence is a picture, as it’s but one picture.

„A“ (in German „ein“) is a vague and indefinite article for one out of some or even many. It’s insofar even dangerous to speak of „a God“ - for doubters and disbelievers don’t really know or don’t believe in the Holy Trinity, and mistake it for one out of many. The rule of grammar clearly pinpoints: “A” is one of the lot.
Ask any other Christian, ask any Priest or look at the creed:
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/credo.htm
God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God
It doesn’t say a God from God……
ABSOLUTE SINGULARITY!

Catholics really ought to avoid any aggressive tone among brethren in Christ (as with others), for it contradicts the greatest command of all - Mark 12,30-31. Love is the fulfillment of the law.

Though you know the answer to your „questions", let me still explain humbly to those now confused by this misleading comparison:
As to John 1,20: From first day on, all humans created by God are „Children of God" (God’s Children) as John puts it (not “Sons of God”). God’s own property, until we by sin abandon this “sonship” and change to Satan’s side.
„Sons of God“ are long before humans where created, in Genesis 6,1-8 Angels, and Angels that became devils; condemning themselves through evil doing - rebellion versus God. They where free to do so, as they had same freedom of decision we own.
“Sons of God” and “Sons of Evil” we also find e.g. in Mt 13,38
Match:
bible.org/question/who-are-%E2%80%9Csons-god%E2%80%9D-genesis-61-8

Now, when human Children of God are given the ability to accomplish wonders, they did have a lot more belief than others. Even the disciples asked Jesus in Mt 17,19, why couldn’t we too accomplish this wonder? Jesus answered; because you got too little faith. Later, after Pentecost, they had so much faith, that even the shadow of Peter’s gown healed the sick Acts 5,15. No, Prophets, Saints, Apostles truly weren’t divine, but had been given through God’s grace, the power to accomplish wonders.
The very obvious wonders Jesus Christ effectuated - or happened by God the Father’s will like the one’s mentioned and we all know as the Gospel is full of them - no Prophet, Saint or disciple ever did nor ever could accomplish. It was ever so obvious, that Jesus is The Son of God, God in God, Light from Light. God Himself. The Messiah they did not recognize. Let me just mention one out of countless: Mark 4,30: He simply walked amidst through them and away. Or the last one humans witnessed - Christ’s Resurrection and His appearance in front of very many. But what am I telling you - you know anyhow. So, let’s never answer derisively, but in a supporting manner.

There where several wonders shown to very few selected people only, and Jesus even told them not to reveal His Divinity - such as in Mt 17.9, when Christ forbid them to talk to others about it ’til after His resurrection and appearance as God - which indeed extremely many saw, believed, comprehended or refused to believe.

It remains ever so surprising, that not all who experienced these striking hints God gave them and never before any human being accomplished as I wrote before, did still not realize Jesus Christ’s divinity - or refused it.
But then as Abraham said in Luke 16.31: they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead and tells them. This goes all the same for our time today.

Yours
Bruno

Catholics really ought to avoid any aggressive tone among brethren in Christ (as with others), for it contradicts the greatest command of all - Mark 12,30-31. Love is the fulfillment of the law.

Asking legitimate questions is not being aggressive.

As to John 1,20: From first day on, all humans created by God are „Children of God" (God’s Children) as John puts it (not “Sons of God”). God’s own property, until we by sin abandon this “sonship” and change to Satan’s side.

The St. Andrew’s Missal states quite clearly that we will become like “sons of God”, not “children of God”. This is the final prayer stated at the end of every pre-Vatican II Latin Mass taken from the Gospel of John.

Christ even recites the Psalter, stating “Ye shall be like gods”, which some interpret to mean “leaders”.

had been given through God’s grace, the power to accomplish wonders.
The very obvious wonders Jesus Christ effectuated - or happened by God the Father’s will like the one’s mentioned and we all know as the Gospel is full of them - no Prophet, Saint or disciple ever did nor ever could accomplish.

Actually, there have been hundreds of saints and holy men throughout the centuries that have effected tremendous miracles through the hand of the Creator, including faith healing. Even our own Bible gives countless examples.

Regardless, you never answered a single one of my questions directly. We are all familiar with Christ’s miracles. There is no need to recite them here as no one has questioned these miracles.

You evade the question of what we are to make of the “divinity” (or not) of other miracle-workers besides Christ.

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