Jesus defeated on the cross?


#1

I know for sure that the Jesus that I know rose from the dead. However, the only thing bothering my mind is that, was Jesus really defeated on the cross for the first time as others are saying. well, some people are saying that it is really true that Jesus rose from the dead but he was defeated for the first time on the cross and that on the third day, he over-powered His opponent forever. what do you think?


#2

I have no clue what you just said up there Gloria.

Defeated How?


#3

Jesuse was Never defeated on the Cross.

He died like He said He would do, went down and preached to the Souls not yet in Heaven and on the 3rd day, again, just like He said He would do, Rose again, taking those Souls with Him up to Heaven.


#4

John 10:17-18:

“I lay down my life, that I may take it again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again; this charge I have received from my Father.”

Jesus was not defeated because He laid down His life freely for our salvation. No one “took” his life. The only reason He was able to be crucified is because He allowed it for our benefit.


#5

I agree with the others. The death of Jesus on the Cross was only an apparent defeat, but even in his death, there were signs that it was in fact a victory. The Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 27 describes how at his death the veil in the temple was torn (symbolizing (I think) how Jesus’s death freed us from the Old Law which had been almost impossible to follow), tombs were opened and Saints emerged.

The resurrection is only the fulfillment of the promise, his death was what ultimately freed us from death.


Bill


#6

Jesus defeated Satan on the Cross. Mark’s Gospel reveals this. Why do you think the centurion said, as he looked at the bloodied beaten body, “Surely, this was the Son of God”?

A tree was the instrument of Man’s downfall in Eden. Isn’t it appropriate that a tree is the instrument of man’s Redemption on Golgotha?


#7

Hi

What makes you so sure that he rose from the dead? I know that he did not die on Cross in the first place, so there is no question of him, in my opinion , rising from the dead.

Thanks


#8

We know he rose from the dead because we have the testimony of witnesses to both his death and resurrection. Jesus himself proved his resurrection to the Apostles.

Now, I suppose you can argue that Jesus’s had picked followers lied about the whole thing but then you have to explain why all of them were willing to face persecution and death to maintain that claim (and all but one of them was martyred for that belief).

While it can be argued that many of the beliefs of the Catholic Church and indeed Christianity as a whole developed after the days of the Apostles, it is clear that the belief in the resurrection was common amongst those who were his contemporaries. So if Jesus was rescued from the cross, how come his disciples didn’t know about it?


Bill


#9

He destroyed death by dying :slight_smile: - in no sense was His Death a defeat. His Resurrection followed - He could not stay dead.

His Death is yet more proof that He is God-with-us - man dies, so He Who is the Living God by nature, by His grace humbled Himself to share in the death we must undergo. And in the process of doing so, He ruined it - “abolished” it, in fact. By swallowing Him, death merely succeeded in gulping down Someone it could not (as it were) digest - “He could not be held by the pains of death.” Which is why the Resurrection was not a way out of a terrible mistake (as some say) but a stage in God’s purpose from the very beginning.

BTW - the Resurrection is not the restoration of a dead body: it’s a fresh, permanent, unique, creative act of God. As such, it brings a new kind of life - not a restoration of the old one. The Identity of the God-man is the same - but this is a Glorified God-man. And His Resurrection & Glorification are the pattern, the source & guarantee & Example & Cause, of the Resurrection of His members. The Head of the Body is Risen, so the members if the Body cannot not be: the life of Heaven begins here & now, for the Spirit Who raised Him is the Spirit through Whom we are made alive in Christ. :slight_smile:


#10

I think they are doctrinally talking grave foolishness.

Look at the passion narratives in the Gospels, and even the entire Gospels themselves.

Jesus knew what the will of God was and what the plan of God was and His own part in it. The Garden of Gethsemane shows that very very clearly.

The truth is that Jesus was not defeated…He gave Himself for us and Satan, being the finite creature that he is, thought he had won. What he took to be his victory was in fact the most grievous defeat he could have suffered.

Glory to God in the highest!


#11

Sorry, but there is plenty of accounts of that resurrection and the attempted bribery of the guards at His tomb to say it did not happen.

As for your allegation that Jesus did not die on that cross. Ask any competent physician what it means when that Roman soldier thrust that spear into his side and blood and water came forth.

You may not believe it, but the facts are against you.


#12

Besides, CM, the Roman centurions had become quite adept at making sure that people died while they were hanging on the Cross.

I think our good Paarsurrey doesn’t believe it because Paul didn’t produce the names of any of the 500 witnesses, if I remember correctly. Well, we do have the names of at least 13 witnesses - the 11 surviving Apostles, Mary, and Mary Magdalene.


#13

Remember St. Matthew, Ch. 29.

51 And behold one of them that were with Jesus, stretching forth his hand, drew out his sword: and striking the servant of the high priest, cut off his ear. 52 Then Jesus saith to him: Put up again thy sword into its place: for all that take the sword shall perish with the sword. 53 Thinkest thou that I cannot ask my Father, and he will give me presently more than twelve legions of angels? 54 How then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that so it must be done?

A legion being the standard Roman military formation of about 6,000 men. So, 12 legions would be a mighty army.

Jesus could, at any time, have defeated those who crucified Him.
He freely chose not to, in order to redem us.

God Bless


#14

One angel would be a might army. 72,000 would be unimaginable!!!

On a side note, isn’t it ironic that 12 legions would represent half the number of 144,000 saints that are represented in Revelation. I don’t know what that has to do with anything. Just pondering.


#15

That is silly. God made the plan of salvation. He made Jesus from his self, sent him to us to preach and die. Jesus’ death was ordained by God, out of love for us. Yes, someone had to actually kill him, but only because God allowed it. If an enemy defeated Jesus, he can have been brought down in an instant. The whole plan of salvation is worked by God. There were plain people who played the parts in that plan, BUT God was always in control of the whole situation. The enemy was defeated, Lucifer, Satan, the devil. What ever you want to call him. hH was a power hungry angel in heaven who coveted the throne in heaven. St Michael swiftly defeated him and threw him out of heaven. Satan is very active today, but he will never, ever defeat God. The botom line is its not a matter of 2 opponents and one gets defeated and one wins. Actually the bible says that Jesus death on the cross defeated sin. The wages of sin is death. We should have died for our sins. But since Jesus is our Savior, He defeated the death of man and made it so we too will rise again.


#16

I wouldn’t read too much into the numbers. A legion was between 4,000 and 6,000 men at different times in history. In the 1st Century A.D., it was probably about 5,500 men. 6,000 is just a nice, round number to toss aroubd.

God Bless


#17

Yeah, I don’t play around too much with numerology (other than than 3’s, 6’s, 7’s, 8’s and sometimes the 40’s) in the Bible. I just like coincidences!!!


#18

Lets not forget 12…


Bill


#19

thanks all for your answers! I really appreciate it! stay blessed!


closed #20

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