Jesus didn't quote the apocrypha?


#1

Could I please get examples of when Jesus quotes scripture without saying the word “scripture”?

I am currently in a debate about the deuterocanon. I gave him the list of quotes and alludements in the NT. He said that he doesn’t think that the apocrypha is scripture because when Jesus quotes scripture he always says “scripture” or “law of moses” etc.

I provided him with the only quote I knew of–the quote of psalms when Jesus was being crucified, but he said, “We can excuse that because Jesus was being crucified.”

So, back to my original question: Do you have any times when Jesus quotes the non-apocryphal writings without saying “scripture”?


#2

Gosh, some people really are out of it. We can quote a line from The Lord’s Prayer–forgive us our debt as we forgive those who are in debt to us, and find it’s a paraphrase of Sirach 28:2. Jesus use the wrods, “Scripture says…” or “The Law says…” to emphasize a point, as those points are important to His listeners and Jesus wants them to make sure that they get what He says. Is it that important to have Him say each and every time to say those when quoting Scripture? No.


#3

Hey Pio!
For a fellow M.I., I am glad to help out if I can.
Check this out: envoymagazine.com/backissues/1.2/marapril_story2.html
It’s called 5 myths about 7 books.
I think that you’ll find a good answer in myth # 2. :thumbsup:
Pax vobiscum,


#4

Bump–Still need non-apocryphal quotes where Jesus doesn’t preface with “scripture” or “law of moses”

Thanks guys, those helped, but what I REALLY NEED to put the nail in the coffin of this debate is the quote without “scripture”.


#5

I don’t know if this will help or not, and unfortunately I can’t find the verses I"m referring to.

I don’t believe it references “scripture” specifically, but it does reference scripture.

If I remember correctly, the Pharisees accepted only the Pentateuch in the time of Jesus, while the Sadducees accepted all of the scriptures, including Tobit, which is the store I’m about to refer to.

Now, they were trying to trap Jesus and posed a question to Jesus regarding divorce and what became of the woman and who she would be with in heaven. Without naming it, they referenced Tobit, in which the woman was oppressed by a demon and married 7 men, whom were all killed by the demon. So under the Law, the question to Jesus was…who was really her husband in heaven?

I don’t remember the answer Jesus gave, but I do remember that they were trying to trick Jesus and I think find out who he was aligned with…the Pharisees or Sadducees.

I think some better scholars on this site can maybe add more detail to this.

IN any case, I believe that Tobit is one of the books dropped from the Bible by Luther, and we do believe taht Tobit is sacred scripture. The fact that it is referenced even without name in the NT proves it belongs in the Bible.


#6

Thanks–Others?


#7

Here is a stunner I give to prots about the deutero’s concerning Jesus:

[quote=Wisdom 2] 12 Let us beset the just one, because he is obnoxious to us; he sets himself against our doings, Reproaches us for transgressions of the law and charges us with violations of our training. 13He professes to have knowledge of God and styles himself a child of the LORD. 14To us he is the censure of our thoughts; merely to see him is a hardship for us, 15Because his life is not like other men’s, and different are his ways. 16He judges us debased; he holds aloof from our paths as from things impure. He calls blest the destiny of the just and boasts that God is his Father. 17Let us see whether his words be true; let us find out what will happen to him. 18For if the just one be the son of God, he will defend him and deliver him from the hand of his foes. 19With revilement and torture let us put him to the test that we may have proof of his gentleness and try his patience. 20Let us condemn him to a shameful death; for according to his own words, God will take care of him."
[/quote]

Remeber these were not Christians writing this, it was way before Christ. Also look at the last line, Jesus says the Father will take care of Him all through the Gospels.


#8

[quote= John 10:22-23]It was the feast of the Dedication at Jerusalem; it was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the portico of Solomon.
[/quote]

Jesus here is celebrating Hannukah (the Festival of the Dedication, or Festival of Lights) that was instituted when Judas Maccabee rededicated the Temple after freeing it from the Syrians in 165 BC. This series of events is fully described in The Book of Maccabee’s (I Maccabees 4:36-59), which is part of the Catholic canon of Scripture.

[quote=I Maccabees: 36-59]Then Judas and his brothers said, “Now that our enemies have been crushed, let us go up to purify the sanctuary and rededicate it.” So the whole army assembled, and went up to Mount Zion. They found the sanctuary desolate, the altar desecrated, the gates burnt, weeds growing in the courts as in a forest or on some mountain, and the priests’ chambers demolished. Then they tore their clothes and made great lamentation; they sprinkled their heads with ashes and fell with their faces to the ground. And when the signal was given with trumpets, they cried out to Heaven.

Judas appointed men to attack those in the citadel, while he purified the sanctuary. He chose blameless priests, devoted to the law; these purified the sanctuary and carried away the stones of the Abomination to an unclean place. They deliberated what ought to be done with the altar of holocausts that had been desecrated. The happy thought came to them to tear it down, lest it be a lasting shame to them that the Gentiles had defiled it; so they tore down the altar. They stored the stones in a suitable place on the temple hill, until a prophet should come and decide what to do with them. Then they took uncut stones, according to the law, and built a new altar like the former one. They also repaired the sanctuary and the interior of the temple and purified the courts. They made new sacred vessels and brought the lampstand, the altar of incense, and the table into the temple. Then they burned incense on the altar and lighted the lamps on the lampstand, and these illuminated the temple. They also put loaves on the table and hung up curtains. Thus they finished all the work they had undertaken. Early in the morning on the twenty-fifth day of the ninth month, that is, the month of Chislev, in the year one hundred and forty-eight, they arose and offered sacrifice according to the law on the new altar of holocausts that they had made. On the anniversary of the day on which the Gentiles had defiled it, on that very day it was reconsecrated with songs, harps, flutes, and cymbals. All the people prostrated themselves and adored and praised Heaven, who had given them success.

For eight days they celebrated the dedication of the altar and joyfully offered holocausts and sacrifices of deliverance and praise. They ornamented the facade of the temple with gold crowns and shields; they repaired the gates and the priests’ chambers and furnished them with doors. There was great joy among the people now that the disgrace of the Gentiles was removed. Then Judas and his brothers and the entire congregation of Israel decreed that the days of the dedication of the altar should be observed with joy and gladness on the anniversary every year for eight days, from the twenty-fifth day of the month Chislev.
[/quote]


#9

[quote=PioMagnus]Bump–Still need non-apocryphal quotes where Jesus doesn’t preface with “scripture” or “law of moses”

Thanks guys, those helped, but what I REALLY NEED to put the nail in the coffin of this debate is the quote without “scripture”.
[/quote]

How about when He is on the Cross and He says “My God, why have you forsaken me.” He’s quoting Psalm 22.


#10

Here are a couple of examples of where Christ quoted from the apocrypha:

  • Matt 5:6 from Sirach 24:21

  • Matt 5:12 from Sirach 2:8

  • Matt 5:8 from 2 Esdras 7:98

  • Matt 5:43 from Sirach 12:4-7

  • Matt 5:45 from Sirach 4:10

I am sure there are many others, but in the interest of time, these are the ones I located.

I hope this helps.

Blessings,

John


#11

If the duetero-canonical books aren’t scripture because Jesus didn’t quote them, then the only books that should be Old Testament scripture are the ones that were quoted by Jesus, right? However, I can’t seem to recall Jesus quoting Song of Songs, which I believe all Protestants do accept as scripture. I’m sure there are other books that fit this description as well.

You should really ask your friend how he believes scripture is defined, because from my experience growing up Baptist the deutero-canonical books aren’t considered scripture because some of the things talked about are too off the wall (ie, they don’t fit with a pre-determined doctrine).

Peace


#12

This website has many quotes connectiong the NT with the deuterocanonical books:

scripturecatholic.com/deuterocanon.html


#13

[quote=chemcatholic]If the duetero-canonical books aren’t scripture because Jesus didn’t quote them, then the only books that should be Old Testament scripture are the ones that were quoted by Jesus, right? However, I can’t seem to recall Jesus quoting Song of Songs, which I believe all Protestants do accept as scripture. I’m sure there are other books that fit this description as well.

You should really ask your friend how he believes scripture is defined, because from my experience growing up Baptist the deutero-canonical books aren’t considered scripture because some of the things talked about are too off the wall (ie, they don’t fit with a pre-determined doctrine).

Peace
[/quote]

Right on. While it is fine to play along, at some point you should challenge their presuppositions. This one being the tired quotation=canonicity. In that Mark Shea article linked above you can see that their objections to the deutercanon would require them to reject books they regard (arbitrarily I would add) as Scripture.

Scott


#14

To anyone who would argue whether Jesus taught from these books, please ask them where in the OT do you find the unique teachings of our Lord, Jesus the Christ on marriage? Like marriage being a sacrament ordained by God, and let no man put asunder what God has brought together, or that marriage is a lifetime commitment, not like is suggested in Deuteronomy, or that the two shall become one. Find these teachings in the protestors OT. Can’t? well try Tobit. When Tobiah is to marry Sarah. It’s all there, all the teachings of Jesus on marriage that are nowhere else in the Bible.


#15

Hi JCPhoenix,

It’s the other way around…the Sadducees accepted only the 5 books of Moses while the Pharisees acccepted the fuller canon.

Blessings,
Gene


#16

[quote=Gene C.]Hi JCPhoenix,

It’s the other way around…the Sadducees accepted only the 5 books of Moses while the Pharisees acccepted the fuller canon.

Blessings,
Gene
[/quote]

Actually, that depended on where the Pharisee was from. Pharisees from Palestine accepted a canon similar to the one used by protestants today. Pharisee’s from abroad (like St. Paul of Tarsus) accepted the broader Septuagint as inspired.


#17

Matthew 5:43
19:19

Mark 12:28-34


#18

cin.org/users/james/files/deutero3.htm


#19

It is actually irrelevant whether Jesus quoted the apocrypha or not. And the reason is because Joshua, Judges, Ruth, 2 Kings 1-2 Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemieh, Esther, Eclessiates, Songs of Songs, Lamentations, Obadiah, Nahum, and Zephaniah are not even quoted by the New Testament authors. That is 15 books of the OT. But one thing is for sure is that the New Testament authors quoted from the Greek Septuagint version 85% of the time when they quoted from the Old Testament, and the Septuagint contained the deuterocanonicals!


#20

Ann Cheryl,

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!! That was EXACTLY what I was looking for!


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