Jesus' Heavenly Body: Flesh or not?


#1

I recently had a debate with a protestant friend of mine, who refuses to call himself calvinist even though his own pastor assures him that he is one, that claims that Christ does not have his physical human body in heaven. This was sparked from a debate over whether the body is intrinsically part of us by nature or merely a shell. He claims that because we get new bodies in the resurrection it's merely a shell. His main verse of defense was one from Paul, where he says "Christ is no long in the flesh". What does this mean? Is it a reference to Christ's unity with a body, or is it more allegorical/analogous?


#2

[quote="JTTaubel, post:1, topic:316659"]
His main verse of defense was one from Paul, where he says "Christ is no long in the flesh".

[/quote]

Is he referring to 2 Cor 5:16 ("Consequently, from now on we regard no one according to the flesh; even if we once knew Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know him so no longer.")...? (Or, in the KJV: "Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.")


#3

Did you show him LK 24:36-51?

As they were saying this, Jesus Himself stood among them, and said "Peace to you." But they were startled and frightened, and supposing that they saw a spirit. And he said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do questionings arise in your hearts? See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself, handle me and see; FOR A SPIRIT HAS NOT FLESH AND BONES AS YOU SEE THAT I HAVE." (Emphasis added) And when he had said this he showed them his hands and his feet. And while they still disbelieved for joy, and wondered, he said to them, "Have you anything here to eat?" They gave him a piece of broiled fish, and he took it and ate before them.....Then he led them out as far as Bethany, and lifting up his hands he blessed them. While he blessed them, he parted from them and was CARRIED UP INTO HEAVEN(emphasis added)

That one doesn't get much clearer to me, Jesus really had a body that was raised, and it was really taken up to heaven.

Christs body is glorified, that's what Paul's talking about. Our bodies will be glorified too, they won't be hampered as they are now, but they'll still be ours. Just like Jesus still has his own body, as is made plain by the fact that he shows the apostles his wounds from his passion, that wouldn't happen if he had a completely new body.


#4

St. Luke also says regarding the Ascension, "this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven" (Acts 1:11).

Any serious discussion of this topic will likely involve a treatment of 1 Corinthians 15. Someone who disbelieves in the resurrection of the flesh might say that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Cor 15:50). In response you could draw on v. 44: "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body." It is important that the resurrected man is not pure spirit, but a body, though one glorious and incorruptible.


#5

Definitely HUMAN BODY!

He Himself told His companions that He had “**flesh **and bones”.

He also took those flesh/bones with Him wherever He went, He did not drop the human body to ascend “spiritually” like Exupery’s Little Prince.

He is as much a HUMAN BODY as you or me. But version 2.0.

ICXC NIKA


#6

[quote="Robyn_p, post:3, topic:316659"]
Did you show him LK 24:36-51?

That one doesn't get much clearer to me, Jesus really had a body that was raised, and it was really taken up to heaven.

Christs body is glorified, that's what Paul's talking about. Our bodies will be glorified too, they won't be hampered as they are now, but they'll still be ours. Just like Jesus still has his own body, as is made plain by the fact that he shows the apostles his wounds from his passion, that wouldn't happen if he had a completely new body.

[/quote]

Yes. :thumbsup: And, you can't have a resurrection if there is no body. Resurrection means restoring life to the dead. A spirit can't die a physical death. A spirit (soul?) can only die a spiritual death. The cure for that is redemption, not resurrection. Only a body can die and be resurrected.

Now, when our bodies die, our souls are judged according to what we did in the body, and sent (either to be with God or not) to await the resurrection at the end of time. The redemption of our souls has already been made available to us. We will be either saved or not. If we are saved, then we will be resurrected at the end of time.


#7

I did bring up Luke. He was hung up on that one line from Paul, in typical sola scriptura fashion, and seemed to disregard the rest. He never answered my queries about the fact of the tomb being Empty either.

But, Gracias, Amigos. This helps.


#8

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.