Jesus. Some questions


#1

The Lord's Prayer.

'And lead us not into temptation'

What does that mean as surely Jesus wouldn't do that?

Also, I read that some people say we shouldn't worship Jesus. That Jesus was a prophet, sent by God. What are your views on that? Some say that the New Testament was altered to fit the church's needs all those years ago?

I ask this as it has come up a few times in discussions and I would like to know how to respond to the 2 above points. Thanks


#2

Jesus is the Incarnation of the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity…not just a prophet.

Since day one of Jesus’ coming to be one of us there have been detractors.


#3

[quote="ajecphotos, post:1, topic:337724"]
The Lord's Prayer.

'And lead us not into temptation'

A better translation would be "do not subject us to the test", but the way we say it is so ingrained now that fixing the translation would be next to impossible.

What does that mean as surely Jesus wouldn't do that?

Also, I read that some people say we shouldn't worship Jesus. That Jesus was a prophet, sent by God. What are your views on that? Some say that the New Testament was altered to fit the church's needs all those years ago?

Stop talking to Muslim apologists. They are twisting the faith to shake your faith. They are lies. In fact it is Islam that has "altered" the writings to fit its needs.

I ask this as it has come up a few times in discussions and I would like to know how to respond to the 2 above points. Thanks

[/quote]


#4

It is not Muslim people that have spoken to me about it.


#5

“Do not lead us into temptation” basically means “do not let us enter into temptation”. God lets us be tempted all the time. It allows us to freely choose Him. When we fail to do as we ought, that is to say, do what is pleasing to God, it is a sin. The prayer is asking God to give us the strength to turn our back on temptation and evil and turn our face toward Him.

Regarding the accusations about “changing the Bible”, I have two words “prove it.” There is no evidence that the Bible was changed. There are some minor copyist errors but nothing that would change something as theologically significant as the Divinity of Jesus. So, the next time it comes up in discussion, I would ask very specifically which verse they think was changed and what evidence they have that it was changed. There are multiple verses which point to the divinity of Jesus. Including:

"Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. Ph 2:6-7

Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM. Jn 8:58

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Jn 1:1

I and the Father are one.”
Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”
“We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.” John 10:30-33

Even the story of how the Jews conspired to kill Jesus shows that they thought Jesus was claiming to be God. They didn’t believe Him despite His numerous signs and miracles. We believe Him to be God because He showed it in His works, in His Resurrection, in His Messianic fulfillment.

There are plenty of Scriptural and historical supports for the Church, her authority, etc, but in the end, there is nothing that is an absolutely positive proof of Jesus, God, the Church, the Scriptures, etc. Some of it just comes down to faith. My best advice to help anyone in their faith journey to be confident of Jesus as Lord is to pray, and pray often. Go to Mass and Confession frequently (they are fonts of grace). Study the Scriptures and Catechism diligently. And one helpful point that many people overlook is the study of history. Study they writings of the Early Church Fathers, the Didache, even take a look at what has been found in catacombs, ancient archeological digs, etc. There is a goldmine of historical support for the doctrines of the Church.


#6

[quote="ajecphotos, post:4, topic:337724"]
It is not Muslim people that have spoken to me about it.

[/quote]

Seventh Day Adventists and Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe that Jesus is God. I believe there are some other denominations that do not believe He is God as well.


#7

Mostly I just want to add my voice to all the others who said Jesus is indeed God. He’s unique because He was a part of God before He came down here and took on human flesh. He was God even though He had the flesh of a human. Then once He died for us, was resurrected, and brought back to Heaven, He’s still God, but now He exists in what Paul calls a Glorified Body. Jesus now has what we who make it to Heaven will also have. But we won’t be God, we will be similar to the angels. We just can’t know exactly what this will be while we’re on Earth. But after almost a lifetime of meditating on this, I am convinced it is something so great that nothing on Earth can compare with it. And most certainly no sin can offer anything that is worth losing the Heavenly prize for.

And I believe we should pray to Jesus or pray to the Father in the name of Jesus.


#8

[quote="ajecphotos, post:1, topic:337724"]
The Lord's Prayer.
'And lead us not into temptation'
What does that mean as surely Jesus wouldn't do that?

[/quote]

Recall that in Matt 6:39, Jesus trembles praying in the garden of Gethsemane, knowing of the pain (the crucifixtion) that is to come, “My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from Me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as You will.” He was tempted to call upon the Father to not go through the painful experience. Note that the most severe pain is the separation which Jesus experienced when He took on the sin of all mankind,resulting in the Father departing from Him. Separation from God - that's REAL pain, so struggling onward, Christian soldier 8-)

Jesus was also lead in 40 days of temptation immediately after being water baptized. Just like Jesus was, God the Father allows us to go through earthly tests/experiences, in order to build us up, much like a parent would say to tehir child, "Eat your broccolli." The child finds the command . . . well, unpleasant, and doesn't understand the benefits of consuming broccolli. The father knwos that the broccolli has cancer-fighting amenities and helps rid the body of harmful toxins, etc. which will help the child grow up in good health.
Yet the child sees only the immediate consequences of taste and non-yumminess. God allowed Job (I humbly exhort you all to re-read Job in its entirety - its truly humbling) to suffer horribly. Bad things, including temptations, will happen (be allowed by God to happen) to us in life, since we all live in the times plagued with sin. In ALL circustances we're called to rejoice (please read James 2:2-6) in, seek, and and lean on God. Also re-read Romans 5:1-5 to see the encouraging purposes through the process of pains, temptation and suffering.

Those who say we shouldn't worship Jesus are wrong - I say that with utmost confidence. To say He was "just" a prophet, sent by God . . . well that's not going far enough. Jesus is a prophet, and a piest, and a King, in the order of Melchizedek. Please consider that when God sends someone to accomplish a task - IT GETS DONE. God is sovereign over all of creation, so His prophets will do what He sends them to do, which in the case of this 2nd person of the Trinity, was to be the Savior for all mankind. That's fact & truth, my friend.


#9

They are wrong because they are taught how to read scripture incorectly. All through the Gospels Jesus claims to be God, and then proves it by walking on water, raising the dead and rising from the dead himself.

Jesus says that there is something greater than the temple here. The only thing greater than the temple is God who dwells in the temple.

Jesus tells his followers that there is something greater than King Solomon here. The only thing greater than Solomon is God who gave Solomon his wisdom, his riches and the kingship.

Jesus states that the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath. The only one who can be Lord of the Sabbath is the one who created the Sabbath and gave it to man as a gift.

The Apostles ask who Jesus is that even the wind obeys him. The wind obeys only God.

These are just a few examples. Over and over Jesus says in various ways, I am God, I am God, I am God…

-Tim-


#10

That all may come to believe…Jesus is God!


#11

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again; if Jesus wasn’t God then He was blaspheming:

Psalm 96:13 before the LORD, for he comes, for he comes to judge the earth. He will judge the world in righteousness, and the peoples in his faithfulness.

Ecclasiastes 12:13 The end of the matter; all has been heard. Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man.
the duty of all mankind
**
14 For God will bring every deed into judgment, with
into the judgment **on
every secret thing, whether good or evil

Psalm 50:3 Our God comes; he does not keep silence;
May our God come, and not keep silence
before him is a devouring fire, around him a mighty tempest.

4 He calls to the heavens above and to the earth, that he may judge his people:

5 "Gather to me my faithful ones, who made a covenant with me by sacrifice! "

6 The heavens declare his righteousness, for God himself is judge! Selah

John 5:22"The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son, EVEN AS they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him."

Isaiah 44:6—Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God besides Me.”

Rev 1:17-18
“Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.”

Mark 2:5-7—And Jesus seeing their faith said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.” But some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, “Why does this man speak that way? He is blaspheming; who can forgive sins but God alone?”

1 Samuel 2:6—The LORD kills and makes alive; He brings down to Sheol and raises up

John 5:25-29—“Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man. Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.”

Isaiah 42:8—“I am the LORD, that is My name;
I will not give My glory to another.”

John 17:5—“Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.”


#12

I have mentioned what has been said here tonight and my 'friends' have said that they believe that the Bible contents are not fact in that many things in it have been written incorrectly / altered to suit the Catholic church many years ago! They said that lots of things were left out or altered. I asked them where is that proof, they answered 'In the Vatican!'

Where do they get these ideas from?


#13

Ask where in the Vatican. Besides, all literature in the Vatican is available to the public upon request. Here’s some more:

Matthew 11:27 All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

Matthew 12:8For the Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath

Matthew 18:19 Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.

20 For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them. "

Also, textual criticism confirms that your friends are crazy. The Scriptures spread East and West, not just West into one building called the Vatican. Your friends are being dishonest.


#14

Many thanks :thumbsup:


#15

[quote="ajecphotos, post:12, topic:337724"]
I have mentioned what has been said here tonight and my 'friends' have said that they believe that the Bible contents are not fact in that many things in it have been written incorrectly / altered to suit the Catholic church many years ago! They said that lots of things were left out or altered. I asked them where is that proof, they answered 'In the Vatican!'

Where do they get these ideas from?

[/quote]

They get the ideas from the evil one, who hates the Truth that saves!


#16

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