Jesus, Son of God or Prophet, in the Bible


#1

Hello there!

My sister learned in school that Jesus never called himself the Son of God, so, now she and my mother have been using this an an argument to show that Jesus was really either:
a) a prophet
b) just a man, and his apostles decided to call him the Son of God to further their agendas.

I'm not sure if this is a misunderstanding of the Bible, or if perhaps they are taking a fundamentalist approach. Any advice with how to deal with this issue is welcome, as well as your opinion.


#2

Why was Jesus crucified? Because he said He is the son of God.


#3

Without digging out scriptural references, perhaps ask your mother and sister who they think Jesus was talking about when he spoke about his Father?


#4

John 10:32 Jesus answered them: Many good works I have shewed you from my Father; for which of these works do you stone me?

33 The Jews answered him: For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, maketh thyself God.

34 Jesus answered them: Is it not written in your law: I said you are gods?

35 If he called them gods, to whom to word of God was spoken, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36 Do you say of him whom the Father hath sanctified and sent into the world: Thou blasphemest, because I said, I am the Son of God?


#5

Christ frequently refers to God as His Father (St. Matthew 25:34, St. Luke 24:49, St. John 20:17), especially when found in the Second Temple by the Blessed Virgin and St. Joseph (St. Luke 2:49), while He also answered in the affirmative when the Sanhedrin questioned Him about His Divine Sonship (St. Matthew 26:64, St. Mark 14:62). Furthermore He asserts in the Gospel of St. John that He came from heaven (St. John 6:38, 6:51) and proceeds from God (St. John 8:42, 16:28).


#6

[quote="DexUK, post:3, topic:313588"]
Without digging out scriptural references, perhaps ask your mother and sister who they think Jesus was talking about when he spoke about his Father?

[/quote]

Aye, astute enough. Then, perhaps, I would hear that all the Jews referred to God in same.

To say "without digging our scriptural references," should I infer that is because there is none, or it's a waste of energy? haha
What about Luke 10:22, Matthew 28:18-19? I've read the Bible always seeing Jesus as the Son of God, so maybe hearing that "he never said that" is taught in school throws me a bit. How do I react to those who treat this as gospel truth? Regardless of the inference.

As for being crucified for saying he was Son of God; he did not. He said Son of man, who would sit at the Father's right hand. This is why he was called "King of the Jews" and sentenced? Now, I don't know for sure, I'm just asking. I'm almost certain that this is one of the places my mother would cite as proof of Christ's not being the son of God.

Thank you all for your answers, and sorry for any annoyance I may cause.


#7

Matthew 16:13-20

King James Version (KJV)

13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

**16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
**
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.


#8

Thank you, anjoh66 and Glacies. Perhaps I should be more worried about what they're teaching my sister in school. However, my mother was raised fundamentalist, and she encouraged the assertion. Maybe the wording is arguable? As I've said, I'm biased, so I might not see it objectively as I should in this case.


#9

[quote="JharekCarnelian, post:7, topic:313588"]
Matthew 16:13-20

King James Version (KJV)

13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

**16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
**
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

[/quote]

Many thanks. Now that I'm certain that I've not gone mad, the issue becomes how I shall broach the topic again, tactfully. :thumbsup:


#10

[quote="JharekCarnelian, post:7, topic:313588"]
Matthew 16:13-20

King James Version (KJV)

**16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
**

[/quote]

:thumbsup:Douay-Rheims as well:thumbsup:


#11

I prefer the majesty of the King James translation and have a preference for it.


#12

[quote="JharekCarnelian, post:11, topic:313588"]
I prefer the majesty of the King James translation and have a preference for it.

[/quote]

That's what I use. I haven't been suggested any other versions, and discussing anything other than preference might cal for a different thread. I am very curious about that though, so I'll browse around.


#13

=EColquhoun;10314432]Hello there!

My sister learned in school that Jesus never called himself the Son of God, so, now she and my mother have been using this an an argument to show that Jesus was really either:
a) a prophet
b) just a man, and his apostles decided to call him the Son of God to further their agendas.

I'm not sure if this is a misunderstanding of the Bible, or if perhaps they are taking a fundamentalist approach. Any advice with how to deal with this issue is welcome, as well as your opinion.

Assuming thry DO believe in the Bible sahre these:

Luke 1: 26-35 "And in the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God into a city of Galilee, called Nazareth, To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. Who having heard, was troubled at his saying, and thought with herself what manner of salutation this should be. [30] And the angel said to her: Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.

Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name Jesus. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the most High; and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father; and he shall reign in the house of Jacob for ever. And of his kingdom there shall be no end. And Mary said to the angel: How shall this be done, because I know not man? **And the angel answering, said to her: The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the most High shall overshadow thee. And therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God". **:D

*John 10:30 *"I and the Father are one."

*1 Timothy 1:2 *"To Timothy, his beloved son in faith. Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father, and from Christ Jesus our Lord".

And Co Equal and Co-Eternal in the Blessed Trinity:

Mt. 3:16-17 And Jesus [GOD THE SON] being baptized, forthwith came out of the water: and lo, the heavens were opened to him: and he saw the Spirit of God [GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT] descending as a dove, and coming upon him. And behold a voice from heaven, saying: This is my beloved Son, [GOD THE FATHER] in whom I am well pleased."

"MY FATHER" is referenced OVER 700 times in the NT:thumbsup:


#14

[quote="EColquhoun, post:12, topic:313588"]
That's what I use. I haven't been suggested any other versions, and discussing anything other than preference might cal for a different thread. I am very curious about that though, so I'll browse around.

[/quote]

Be aware though that modern KJV translations often leave out the deutero canonical books and that there are different Biblical canons. You may of course be aware of that already. For a sense of power and majesty though the KJV is very hard to beat and is one of the crowning accomplishments of English literature.


#15

Jesus clearly stated that he was God several times.

**I say to you, something greater than the temple is here.* (Matthew 12:6)*

Jesus said that he was greater than the Temple. The only thing greater than the temple was God who dwelt in the temple.

**For the Son of Man is Lord of the sabbath.* (Matthew 12:8)*

Jesus said that he was Lord of the Sabbath. The only one with authority over the sabbath was God who gave the sabbath to man.

Jesus called himself Son of Man frequently. The Jews around him would have immediately recognized that as a reference to the writings of the prophet Daniel.

**I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven
there came one like a son of man
,
and he came to the Ancient of Days
and was presented before him.
And to him was given dominion
and glory and kingdom,
that all peoples, nations, and languages
should serve him;
his dominion is an everlasting dominion,
which shall not pass away,
and his kingdom one
that shall not be destroyed.
(Daniel 7:13-14)

All through the Gospels, Jesus is saying over and over, "I am God", "I am God", "I am God". Jews who knew the scriptures undererstood what he was saying, and that is why they wanted to kill him for blashpemy.

-Tim-


#16

[quote="EColquhoun, post:6, topic:313588"]
...who would sit at the Father's right hand. This is why he was called "King of the Jews" and sentenced? Now, I don't know for sure, I'm just asking. I'm almost certain that this is one of the places my mother would cite as proof of Christ's not being the son of God.

[/quote]

Nope, on the contrary, "at the right hand of the Father" is a phrase meaning that he has the same authority as the Father. "Alongside" would be a more modernly understood word meaning the same thing.

Here are a couple of good articles you might like:
catholic.com/tracts/the-divinity-of-christ
catholic.com/magazine/articles/jesus-is-god (Also covers and refutes some JW theories)

And here is a radio result I found in case you get sick of reading :P
catholic.com/radio/shows/the-divinity-of-christ-6367


#17

John 12:44 Then Jesus cried aloud: “Whoever **believes in me **believes not in me but in him who sent me. 45 And whoever sees me sees him who sent me. 46 I have come as light into the world, so that everyone who* believes in me should not remain in the darkness. 47 I do not judge anyone who hears my words and does not keep them, **for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 The one who rejects me and does not receive my word has a judge; on the last day the word that I have spoken will serve as judge, 49 for I have not spoken on my own, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment about what to say and what to speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I speak, therefore, I speak just as the Father has told me.”*

Notice something here. COMPLETELY different from every other prophet. They ALL exhorted for people to believe in God. Jesus commands for us to believe in HIM.


#18

John 8:56 Your ancestor Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day; he saw it and was glad.” 57 Then the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” 58 Jesus said to them, “Very truly, I tell you, before Abraham was, **I am*.”

John 8:12 Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “**I am **the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but will have the light of life.”

John 6:35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never be hungry, and **whoever believes in me **will never be thirsty.

John 10:7 So again Jesus said to them, “Very truly, I tell you, I am **the gate for the sheep. 8 All who came before me are thieves and bandits; but the sheep did not listen to them. 9 **I am the gate. Whoever enters by me will be saved, and will come in and go out and find pasture. 10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly. 11 “I am **the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12 The hired hand, who is not the shepherd and does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and runs away—and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. 13 The hired hand runs away because a hired hand does not care for the sheep. 14 **I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, **15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father. And I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep that do not belong to this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd. 17 For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life in order to take it up again. 18 No one takes[a] it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. **I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it up again. I have received this command from my Father.”

John 11:25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Those who believe in me, even though they die, will live, 26 and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?” 27 She said to him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that you are the Messiah, the Son of God, the one coming into the world.”

John 14:1 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. Believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father’s house there are many dwelling places. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, so that where I am, there you may be also. 4 And you know the way to the place where I am going.” 5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way?” **6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. **7 If you know me, you will know my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him.”

John 15:1 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinegrower. 2 He removes every branch in me that bears no fruit. Every branch that bears fruit he prunes to make it bear more fruit. 3 You have already been cleansed by the word that I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in me as I abide in you. Just as the branch cannot bear fruit by itself unless it abides in the vine, neither can you unless you abide in me. 5 I am **the vine, you are the branches. Those who abide **in me and I in them bear much fruit, because apart from me you can do nothing. 6 Whoever does not abide** in me is thrown away like a branch and withers; such branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned. 7 If you abide **in me, and my words abide in you, ask for whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit and become my disciples. 9 As the Father has loved me, so I have loved you;** abide in my love*. 10 If you keep **my* commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and abide in his love. 11 I have said these things to you so that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be complete. 12 “This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13 No one has greater love than this, to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command **you. 15 I do not call you servants any longer, because the servant does not know what the master is doing; but I have called you friends, because I have made known to you everything that I have heard from my Father. 16 You did not choose me but I chose you. And I appointed you to go and bear fruit, fruit that will last, so that the Father will give you whatever you ask him in **my name. 17 I am giving you these commands so that you may love one another.*


#19

The books of the New Testament were written in order to lead us to faith. John says it clearly: "these are written so that you may come to believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that through believing you may have life in his name." (Jn 20:31). The whole of the New Testament is a proclamation that Jesus is the Messiah (the Christ), the Son of God. And the Church has existed and goes on existing to be a witness of that truth. If you read the Gospel of John in a prayerful manner, asking for the guidance of the Holy Spirit, you cannot miss that truth.
While quarreling with Jesus, some people referred to Abraham, and told Jesus to his face that he was possessed, because he presented himself as older than Abraham; and Jesus answered back: "Very truly, I tell you, before Abraham was, I am." (Jn 8:58). This I AM represents the name of God - YHWH. In Exodus, God told Moses: "God said to Moses, I am who I am. He said further, Thus you shall say to the Israelites,** I am** has sent me to you." (Ex 3:14).
How could Jesus present himself in that way? Because he is the beloved son of God, and he is one with the Father: "Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and you still do not know me? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, Show us the Father? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own; but the Father who dwells in me does his works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me" (Jn 14:9-11)


#20

in The gospel written by St.John 5;25-30 Jesus tells the Pharisees that the Son of Man is the Son of God.


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