Jewish Covenant: Valid?


#1

Hello All,
Some will be tempted to move this thread to the “Other Religions” forum, but please don’t! I am not interested in starting a debate. I would like to know the Roman Catholic position on my question.

Throughout the Old Testament God refers to Jews as his “chosen people.” At Sinai he said that if the Jews keep his laws then they will be his people and He will be their God. What is the official RCC teaching about modern-day validity of that old covenant? Was it negated upon the coming of the Messiah? Can a modern religious Jew get to heaven? Official sources are really appreciated. I don’t where to start looking… Thanks!
-LutheranStudent


#2

Exactly which verse of OT mentions the word “Jew”?


#3

Is it wrong to use the word “Jew”?

The OT does use the word, for example

Jeremiah 34:9 9 that everyone should set free his Hebrew slaves, male and female, so that no one should enslave a Jew, his brother.


#4

Look at what Pope Eugene said:
The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes, and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgiving, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church (Pope Eugene IV, Cantate Domino).

Apparently the rcc at one point believed in a more stingent “outside the church there is no salvation” than they do now. The ccc is rather fuzzy and seems to indicate that the old covenant has not been revoked but that would be in fact a break with what the “ancient” church taught, so who knows?

I guess whatever the church currently teaches is what the catholics are supposed to believe.


#5

“If you can’t sy somethin’ nice then don’t say nutin at all.”

Thumper


#6

Oh please, let’s not beat this poor horsey to death AGAIN! :yawn:

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=133797&page=5


#7

Your pope clearly says the Jews would not be able to get to heaven and this is consisten with what the earlier church taught.

Did Pope Eugene write this document in a vaccum? Do you think he just got a wild hair one day and decided to pen that Jews and others outside the church would end up in hell?

Your church used to take a much more stringent view of this issue than it apparently does now.

This issue has been discussed before and I’ve never seen a satisfactory explanation…:yawn:


#8

Maybe I missed it, but I did a digital search on the thread you linked to but I did not find the word “Jew” in it.


#9

Hebrews 8:1-13

This was found on BibleGateway.com and I used the New International Versian

The High Priest of a New Covenant
[1] Now the main point of what we are saying is this: We do have such a high priest, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, [2] and who serves in the sanctuary, the true tabernacle set up by the Lord, not by a mere human being.
[3] Every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices, and so it was necessary for this one also to have something to offer. [4] he were on earth, he would not be a priest, for there are already priests who offer the gifts prescribed by the law. [5] They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: “See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.” [6] But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.

[7] For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. [8] But God found fault with the people and said: 
   "The days are coming, declares the Lord, 
   when I will make a new covenant 
   with the house of Israel 
   and with the house of Judah. 

[9] It will not be like the covenant 
   I made with their ancestors 
   when I took them by the hand 
   to lead them out of Egypt, 
   because they did not remain faithful to my covenant, 
   and I turned away from them, 
   declares the Lord. 

[10] This is the covenant I will establish with the house of Israel 
   after that time, declares the Lord. 
   I will put my laws in their minds 
   and write them on their hearts. 
   I will be their God, 
   and they will be my people. 

[11] No longer will they teach their neighbors, 
   or say to one another, 'Know the Lord,' 
   because they will all know me, 
   from the least of them to the greatest. 

[12] For I will forgive their wickedness 
   and will remember their sins no more." 

[13] By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

Jesus replaced the old covenant with the new one. So Jewish law is invalid now to Christians (meaning us Christians don’t follow dietary and ceremonial laws I believe it is Colossians 2:16 that says this-correct me if I’m wrong). And it’s not my place to say whether those of Jewish faith will go to heaven. Some Catholics believe every religion may go to heaven, some Catholics believe only Christians will go to heaven, and some Catholics believe only Catholics will go to heaven. As for me personally, I’m not sure. God knows…

Hope this helps.


#10

You should follow your own advice.


#11

You make about as much sense with that statement as Calvin ;s theology did…


#12

You missed it. The world appears in the very first post on the page the link takes you to. Posts 70 and 71 deal with the issue of context of the Bull in question and actually compare it directly to Lumen Gentium and Contate Domino.

The language in the both documents require a willfulness that by nature would not necessarily be universal.


#13

That doesn’t change the fact that it **was **a teaching of your church that the Jews would be damned as evidenced by the quote from Pope Eugene.

Exactly what your church teaches now seems unclear.


#14

Thanks.

Can you explain what you mean by “The language in the both documents require a willfulness that by nature would not necessarily be universal”?


#15

Those who wilfully adhere to Judaism, or to heresy, or to schism, are most certainly damned. The church has, however, proposed an exception in the case of invincible ignorance. It has also suggested that the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using separated Christian churches and ecclesial communities as instruments of salvation. It has clarified this by saying that whatever elements of sanctification which are present in these churches are derived from the fullness of truth present in the Catholic Church.

Neither of these speculations changes Catholic doctrine. The Church will always teach “Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus”.


#16

I did, that why I posted my Thumper quote instead of the reactive diatribe I deleted.

Chuck


#17

Thank you.


#18

Thanks Dauphin.

But, I was thinking more along the lines of those here who seem to think the Jews by nature of the law will be able to achieve salvation.


#19

No, it isn’t. Why would it be?

H ow exactly is Jeremiah 34:9 connected with Convenant ?


#20

I misunderstood what you meant in your earlier post.


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