mtr01, you asked about “Jews for Jesus”.
See “Jews for Jesus” by Rabbi Shraga Simmons at tinyurl.com/697ge. While many/most (?) so-called “Messianic Jews” may indeed be Jews, i.e. they were born of Jewish mothers or had an orthodox conversion before adopting their heretical (from an orthodox standpoint) beliefs, what they believe and practice is certainly not Judaism. I certainly don’t want to insult or offend anyone here (God forbid!) but beliefs in Jesus/Yeshua as the Messiah, the “Son of God”, an avatar of God Incarnate and/or a “person” within a triune God, and/or in the very idea that God could/did become flesh, etc. are totally, utterly, and completely incompatible with traditional, normative (i.e. orthodox) Judaism, whether of the Rabbinic or Karaite variety. (Heck, even the Samaritans would agree with us on this one!) This circle can never be squared.
While I certainly believe in honest & friendly (always!) dialogue between Jews and Christians, I also believe that such dialogue must be based on a recognition that ours are two separate faiths; one can believe in one or the other but not both.
bengal_fan, you posted:
Christianity is fulfilled judaism (no insult intended stillsmallvoice)…
None taken! We’re .
stillsmallvoice, i have a question. you say you don’t “missionize”. might i ask why? if you have truth and don’t share it with others, is that not selfish. just a question not an attack.
Well, since Judaism does not consign all non-Jews to hell & since we believe that non-Jews can/do have a relationship with God, it follows that there is no need to “carry the Torah to them” as it were, i.e. missionize.
We do, of course, accept converts. But the conversion process can be long & arduous. Generally, someone who is thinking about converting should approach a LOR (Local Orthodox Rabbi & discuss his/her (the prospective convert’s) concerns. It is the LOR’s job to talk with the prospective convert, size up their seriousness & inform him/her of what being a Jew means (warts & all). The LOR will attempt to dissuade the would-be convert as part of his duty to ascertain her motives & see how serious he/she is (We learn this from Naomi’s threefold attempt to dissuade Ruth from following her, see Ruth 1:8, 1:11-12 and 1:15). Once the LOR is satisfied as to the genuineness & seriousness of the would-be convert’s motives, he will outline a course of intensive study (copying Naomi, who, once she understood that Ruth was totally serious, stopped trying to talk her out of it; see Ruth 1:18 ). This will include not just reading, but visiting an orthodox Jewish family, spending Shabbat (i.e. the Sabbath) and holydays with them, etc. After the LOR is satisfied that the prospective convert has studied enough, he will arrange for him/her to appear before a duly constituted rabbinical court (whether permanent or ad hoc), known as a beit din. When the three members of the beit din are satisfied that the would-be convert is both knowledgeable & sincere, they will sanction his/her conversion. A man will thereupon have to be circumcised; if he is already circumcised a drop of blood will have to be drawn from the glans of his penis (by someone specially trained!). The man will then have to immerse in a special ritual bath, known as a mikveh, in the presence of the beit din. A woman will have to immerse in the mikveh, in the presence of a duly authorized woman attendant. That’s it. The person (who will be given a Hebrew name, either in addition to or in place of the person’s previous name) is now Jewish & is usually welcomed with Boaz’s blessing to Ruth (2:12):
“The Lord recompense your work, and be your reward complete from the Lord, the God of Israel, under whose wings you are come to take refuge.”
We also take our cue vis-a-vis missionizing/accepting converts from Zechariah 8:23.
Thus says the Lord of Hosts: In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold, out of all the languages of the nations, shall even take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying: ‘We will go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.’
Notice the dynamic here, of who approaches whom.