Jews Thank The Pope


#1

From John Allen’s column of 1/20/95

Jan. 18 audience with the pope, which, as I told the BBC Tuesday morning, sounds a bit like an old pub joke: “A hundred rabbis walk into a room with the pope …” In this case, however, the punch line was not a laugh, but a hearty expression of gratitude from Jews who said they feel that sometimes Jewish organizations don’t give adequate credit to the Catholic church, either for the historic changes in its teaching on Judaism since the Second Vatican Council (1962-65), or the personal commitment of this pope to combating anti-Semitism.

This was by most accounts the largest papal audience ever with a group of Jews. Normally when the World Jewish Congress or the Anti-Defamation League comes to visit, the delegation is composed of 15-20 people.

Rabbi Joseph Ehrenkranz, who directs the Center for Christian-Jewish Understanding at Sacred Heart University in Fairfield, Connecticut, said that while some Catholics “don’t know” about the revolution since Vatican II, many Jews “don’t believe it.” In that light, Ehrenkranz said, the Jan. 18 audience was an opportunity for Jewish leaders to publicly acknowledge that the transformation is for real.

The event was organized by an American Jew named Gary Krupp, a medical supplies professional who was named a Knight of St. Gregory by John Paul II in 2000 for his support of the southern Italian hospital founded by the famed Capuchin mystic and stigmatic, Padre Pio, called the Casa Sollievo della Sofferenza (“house for the relief of suffering”).

I met Krupp and his wife Meredith over dinner in Rome, and he explained that the award came as a shock. It makes him only the seventh Jew, and just the third one still alive, to be a papal knight. That reality, he said, made him think that perhaps God wanted something from him by way of promoting understanding among the religions.

The result is Krupp’s “Pave the Way” Foundation, the motto of which is, “Embrace our similarities, savor our differences.” Its vision is not limited to Jewish-Catholic relations, and in fact Krupp’s support staff on this Rome trip was composed in part of a handful of volunteer Scientologists. Yet given Krupp’s background, the Jewish-Catholic relationship seemed an obvious place to start.

The agenda of the Jan. 18 audience was two-fold. The overt part was to thank John Paul II for his unique personal commitment to Jews and to Judaism.

“You have defended the Jewish people at every opportunity, as a priest in Poland and in your pontificate,” he said. He recalled John Paul’s 1986 visit to the Roman synagogue, the first by a pope since the time of the primitive church, and his 2000 trip to Israel. Krupp said the pope embodies the “spirit of Aaron, the high priest of ancient Israel.”

“Thank you, thank you, thank you,” Krupp said. “Shalom, shalom, shalom.” After he finished, three rabbis blessed John Paul in Hebrew and English.

John Paul gave a brief set of remarks.
“This year we will be celebrating the 40th anniversary of the Second Vatican Council’s Declaration Nostra Aetate, which has significantly contributed to the strengthening of Jewish-Catholic dialogue,” he said. “May this be an occasion for renewed commitment to increased understanding and cooperation in the service of building a world ever more firmly based on respect for the divine image in every human being.”

nationalcatholicreporter.org/word/pfw012005.htm


#2

Wouldn’t it be great If some of these Jews would thank John Paul II the way Israele Zolli, Chief Rabbi of Rome, thanked Eugenio Pacelli, Pope Pius XII, for his care of the Jews during WWII? Zolli became a Catholic and took the name Eugenio. Zolli’s book, Before the Dawn (Sheed and Ward, NY, 1954), documents his conversion.

:)JMJ Jay


#3

Yes it would be even greater if some of these Rabbi’s and Jewish organization denounced the anti-Catholic rhetoric of some of their rabbi’s, revise the Talmud and strike from it calling Our Lord a “dog” and sorcerer, and fight with us to get “Christ” back into Christmas. They have been so so so silent on this subject this past Christmas.

And by the way, do you ever wonder where X-Mas came from? Well it came from them, as they refused to even write out our Lords name, and instead used the “X” in place of Christ.

And maybe they can recant some of the threats of Lawsuits against the Vatican they have been holding over our heads since WWII blaming Pope Pius XII for not doing enough.

I will keep waiting, but this will never happen, this is one big show thats all as we get nothing in return except some good PR

[quote=HagiaSophia]From John Allen’s column of 1/20/95

Jan. 18 audience with the pope, which, as I told the BBC Tuesday morning, sounds a bit like an old pub joke: “A hundred rabbis walk into a room with the pope …” In this case, however, the punch line was not a laugh, but a hearty expression of gratitude from Jews who said they feel that sometimes Jewish organizations don’t give adequate credit to the Catholic church, either for the historic changes in its teaching on Judaism since the Second Vatican Council (1962-65), or the personal commitment of this pope to combating anti-Semitism.

This was by most accounts the largest papal audience ever with a group of Jews. Normally when the World Jewish Congress or the Anti-Defamation League comes to visit, the delegation is composed of 15-20 people.

Rabbi Joseph Ehrenkranz, who directs the Center for Christian-Jewish Understanding at Sacred Heart University in Fairfield, Connecticut, said that while some Catholics “don’t know” about the revolution since Vatican II, many Jews “don’t believe it.” In that light, Ehrenkranz said, the Jan. 18 audience was an opportunity for Jewish leaders to publicly acknowledge that the transformation is for real.

The event was organized by an American Jew named Gary Krupp, a medical supplies professional who was named a Knight of St. Gregory by John Paul II in 2000 for his support of the southern Italian hospital founded by the famed Capuchin mystic and stigmatic, Padre Pio, called the Casa Sollievo della Sofferenza (“house for the relief of suffering”).

I met Krupp and his wife Meredith over dinner in Rome, and he explained that the award came as a shock. It makes him only the seventh Jew, and just the third one still alive, to be a papal knight. That reality, he said, made him think that perhaps God wanted something from him by way of promoting understanding among the religions.

The result is Krupp’s “Pave the Way” Foundation, the motto of which is, “Embrace our similarities, savor our differences.” Its vision is not limited to Jewish-Catholic relations, and in fact Krupp’s support staff on this Rome trip was composed in part of a handful of volunteer Scientologists. Yet given Krupp’s background, the Jewish-Catholic relationship seemed an obvious place to start.

The agenda of the Jan. 18 audience was two-fold. The overt part was to thank John Paul II for his unique personal commitment to Jews and to Judaism.

“You have defended the Jewish people at every opportunity, as a priest in Poland and in your pontificate,” he said. He recalled John Paul’s 1986 visit to the Roman synagogue, the first by a pope since the time of the primitive church, and his 2000 trip to Israel. Krupp said the pope embodies the “spirit of Aaron, the high priest of ancient Israel.”

“Thank you, thank you, thank you,” Krupp said. “Shalom, shalom, shalom.” After he finished, three rabbis blessed John Paul in Hebrew and English.

John Paul gave a brief set of remarks.
“This year we will be celebrating the 40th anniversary of the Second Vatican Council’s Declaration Nostra Aetate, which has significantly contributed to the strengthening of Jewish-Catholic dialogue,” he said. “May this be an occasion for renewed commitment to increased understanding and cooperation in the service of building a world ever more firmly based on respect for the divine image in every human being.”

nationalcatholicreporter.org/word/pfw012005.htm
[/quote]


#4

Your source for this information, please?


#5

That is not correct. That was actually a CHRISTIAN mode of shorthand: The X stood for Our Lord’s initial. This same argument is put forth by fundamentalist evangelicals, only they blame it on US, if I remember correctly!


#6

Do you expect to find such “unEcumenical” backup like this in a Novus Ordo backed document or reference, like EWTN? While the Church has change prayers, churches, shrines, and even changed the interpretation of the Book of Mathew all in the spirit of Ecumenism and to appease the One World Relgion they seem to be striving for, not to mention what EWTN posted as it related to Islam? But all things being equal, there is bad and good in all religions, but it seems that Our Holy Father forgets the pain and suffering of his own flock

Jewish shopkeepers, in the 1800’s who were enamored with the lore of big money made from Christmas, but refused for religious reasons and other reasons which you can figure out, to write the name “Christ”. There have been “more PC” versions that the shopkeepers did not have enough room on the billboard for the full “Christmas” and instead used the X and then the Greek relationship to the letter “C”, but that explanation came after. And the following below is more facts behind this, as the Orthodox are not permitted to even spell out the name.

How Jewish people Trash Christmas

In addition to the doleful seasonal chorus of Jews complaining about how they are being victimized by Christian holiday cheer, there are other purposeful techniques used to trash Christmas. Here are several of them.

Technique Number One: Delegitimization

According to the Lubavitch-Chabad movement, headquartered in Bethesda, Maryland, righteous Jews are obligated to stamp out Christmas. Their literature quotes Hebrew text (Likkutei Sichos 37:198) to remind us that “…according to the known Jewish ruling…Christians are idol worshippers.” The Lubavitcher handbills go on to quote Rambam Mishne Torah - Hilchos Melachim 10:9 to the effect that “A gentile…is liable for the death penalty…if he has invented a religious holiday for himself…The general principle is we do not allow them to make new religious rituals and to make ‘mitzvahs’ for themselves by their own devices…and if he does make some new ‘mitzvah’, we lash him, and inform him that he is obligated with the death penalty for this…” The Lubavitchers proudly carry on their anti-Christmas campaign in cities around America. Their Noah’s Covenant website at noahide.com/paganism.htm goes on for pages spinning out their conviction that Christianity is just a cryptic revival of ancient pagan cults that “were notorious for practicing witchcraft, forced prostitution, self-mutilation, human sacrifice to false gods, and even burning children alive.

[quote=Katholikos]Your source for this information, please?
[/quote]


#7

[quote=CrusaderNY]Do you expect to find such “unEcumenical” backup like this in a Novus Ordo backed document or reference, like EWTN? While the Church has change prayers, churches, shrines, and even changed the interpretation of the Book of Mathew all in the spirit of Ecumenism and to appease the One World Relgion they seem to be striving for, not to mention what EWTN posted as it related to Islam? But all things being equal, there is bad and good in all religions, but it seems that Our Holy Father forgets the pain and suffering of his own flock

Jewish shopkeepers, in the 1800’s who were enamored with the lore of big money made from Christmas, but refused for religious reasons and other reasons which you can figure out, to write the name “Christ”. There have been “more PC” versions that the shopkeepers did not have enough room on the billboard for the full “Christmas” and instead used the X and then the Greek relationship to the letter “C”, but that explanation came after. And the following below is more facts behind this, as the Orthodox are not permitted to even spell out the name.

How Jewish people Trash Christmas

In addition to the doleful seasonal chorus of Jews complaining about how they are being victimized by Christian holiday cheer, there are other purposeful techniques used to trash Christmas. Here are several of them.

Technique Number One: Delegitimization

According to the Lubavitch-Chabad movement, headquartered in Bethesda, Maryland, righteous Jews are obligated to stamp out Christmas. Their literature quotes Hebrew text (Likkutei Sichos 37:198) to remind us that “…according to the known Jewish ruling…Christians are idol worshippers.” The Lubavitcher handbills go on to quote Rambam Mishne Torah - Hilchos Melachim 10:9 to the effect that “A gentile…is liable for the death penalty…if he has invented a religious holiday for himself…The general principle is we do not allow them to make new religious rituals and to make ‘mitzvahs’ for themselves by their own devices…and if he does make some new ‘mitzvah’, we lash him, and inform him that he is obligated with the death penalty for this…” The Lubavitchers proudly carry on their anti-Christmas campaign in cities around America. Their Noah’s Covenant website at noahide.com/paganism.htm goes on for pages spinning out their conviction that Christianity is just a cryptic revival of ancient pagan cults that “were notorious for practicing witchcraft, forced prostitution, self-mutilation, human sacrifice to false gods, and even burning children alive.
[/quote]

And the site makes no reference to the practice of writing Christmas in shorthand. Got another?


#8

[quote=JKirkLVNV]That is not correct. That was actually a CHRISTIAN mode of shorthand: The X stood for Our Lord’s initial.
[/quote]

You are quite correct. The “X” of X-mas is not the Latin/English ‘eks’ but the Greek “chi” and is the first letter of the Greek spelling of Christ. This can be found in the abreviation so many misread as IXOYE but is actually the Greek letters ichthus, chi, theta, ypsillon, sigma (I may have mispelled these!)


#9

Ok, well what about the rest of the anti-Christian verbiage spewed by the Orthodox, I guess that does not bother you, huh?

[quote=JKirkLVNV]And the site makes no reference to the practice of writing Christmas in shorthand. Got another?
[/quote]


#10

Yes, we all know what the X means as far as the Greek relationship, but X-Mas did not show up until the 1800’s as the word “Christ” was replaced by the Letter “X” by Jewish shopkeepers so as NOT to have to write the word “Christ”. If you see clearly what the Orthodox Jews say and feel about Christmas, as they are not permitted to say or write the word “Christ”, are you and Jkirk not able to connect the dots together???

[quote=theMutant]You are quite correct. The “X” of X-mas is not the Latin/English ‘eks’ but the Greek “chi” and is the first letter of the Greek spelling of Christ. This can be found in the abreviation so many misread as IXOYE but is actually the Greek letters ichthus, chi, theta, ypsillon, sigma (I may have mispelled these!)
[/quote]


#11

PC version from the Dictionary, never saw X-Mas in any Catholic /Religious documentation, so can the dictionary possibly mean other NON Catholic Religions?
Xmas

SYLLABICATION: X·mas

PRONUNCIATION: kr s m s, ks m s

NOUN: Christmas

ETYMOLOGY: From X, the Greek letter chi, first letter of Greek Khr stos, Christ.

USAGE NOTE: Xmas has been used for hundreds of years in religious writing, where the X represents a Greek chi, the first letter of , “Christ.” In this use it is parallel to other forms like Xian, “Christian.” But people unaware of the Greek origin of this X often mistakenly interpret Xmas as an informal shortening pronounced ( ks m s). Many therefore frown upon the term Xmas because it seems to them a commercial convenience that omits Christ from Christmas.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000

[quote=Katholikos]Your source for this information, please?
[/quote]


#12

[quote=CrusaderNY]Ok, well what about the rest of the anti-Christian verbiage spewed by the Orthodox, I guess that does not bother you, huh?
[/quote]

I am guessing from your response that you are unable to cite a source for the information whereby you allege that the origin of the X in “Xmas” was Jewish. I haven’t offered any comment other than to correct the misinformation you offered earlier. I would oppose any attack on the faith. I simply do not believe that misinformation is of any particular help to anyone.


#13

[quote=CrusaderNY]PC version from the Dictionary, never saw X-Mas in any Catholic /Religious documentation, so can the dictionary possibly mean other NON Catholic Religions?
Xmas

SYLLABICATION: X·mas

PRONUNCIATION: kr sms, ksms

NOUN: Christmas

ETYMOLOGY: From X, the Greek letter chi, first letter of Greek Khrstos, Christ.

USAGE NOTE: Xmas has been used for hundreds of years in religious writing, where the X represents a Greek chi, the first letter of , “Christ.” In this use it is parallel to other forms like Xian, “Christian.” ***But people unaware of the Greek origin of this X often mistakenly interpret Xmas as an informal shortening pronounced (***ksms). Many therefore frown upon the term Xmas because it seems to them a commercial convenience that omits Christ from Christmas.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000
[/quote]

People unaware of the Greek origin should avail themselves of the opportunity to become more educated. I heard this same assertion a great deal in the little Northeast Texas Southern Baptist town in which I was raised (not the assertion about the Jews, but the plea “don’ let 'em X out Christmas!!!”). When I went away to university (Baylor, a Baptist one), I learned from my religion professors that this was not the intent of the written form "XMas."You still have not offered proof of your assertion that it can be traced to the Jews. As for your question ***“If you see clearly what the Orthodox Jews say and feel about Christmas, as they are not permitted to say or write the word “Christ”, are you and Jkirk not able to connect the dots together???”, ***I’m afraid I’m not even able to find the dots about the Jews and XMas, let alone connect them. Perhaps in addition to accusation made against me by some that I am a “liberal Catholic,” we should now add the qualifying
adjective of “dumb.”


#14

Ok, you win

I stand corrected as there will be nothing that I can put in front of you that will change your mind. This was not some published document that some rabbi put out, it was a trend started by shopkeepers in defiance and in adherence to Orthodox law as I referenced. Just like Santa Clause was an adaptation of St Nicholas, so was the trend of X-Mas by Non Catholics of whom were Jewish. Thats all. You are not going to find that in church documents as the church would not even support “The Passion” for fear of upsetting the Jews.

[quote=JKirkLVNV]People unaware of the Greek origin should avail themselves of the opportunity to become more educated. I heard this same assertion a great deal in the little Northeast Texas Southern Baptist town in which I was raised (not the assertion about the Jews, but the plea “don’ let 'em X out Christmas!!!”). When I went away to university (Baylor, a Baptist one), I learned from my religion professors that this was not the intent of the written form "XMas."You still have not offered proof of your assertion that it can be traced to the Jews. As for your question ***“If you see clearly what the Orthodox Jews say and feel about Christmas, as they are not permitted to say or write the word “Christ”, are you and Jkirk not able to connect the dots together???”, ***I’m afraid I’m not even able to find the dots about the Jews and XMas, let alone connect them. Perhaps in addition to accusation made against me by some that I am a “liberal Catholic,” we should now add the qualifying
adjective of “dumb.”
[/quote]


#15

Whatever the history of “Xmas” may be, we have real evidence today from the Jewish Anti-Defamation League’s suppression of Christ during Christmas in their “December dillema” propaganda campaign.

Each year the ADL informs all American schools and institutions that snowflakes and snowmen are acceptable holiday decorations but that nothing even remotely related to Christ can be tolerated. This is the same ADL that enjoys direct communication with the Vatican in matters of Jewish interests.

Further, CrusaderNY has raised a valid point: that the Jewish slander for our Lord and His Blessed Mother in their Kabbalah and Talmud has never been apologized for or even addressed, despite the Pope’s never ending groveling before the rabbis.

There is a clear double standard being practiced here, and this should be a cause for concern for all Christians.


#16

[quote=CrusaderNY]Ok, you win

I stand corrected as there will be nothing that I can put in front of you that will change your mind. This was not some published document that some rabbi put out, it was a trend started by shopkeepers in defiance and in adherence to Orthodox law as I referenced. Just like Santa Clause was an adaptation of St Nicholas, so was the trend of X-Mas by Non Catholics of whom were Jewish. Thats all. You are not going to find that in church documents as the church would not even support “The Passion” for fear of upsetting the Jews.
[/quote]

The point I would humbly make is this: when we accuse someone of something, we need to have a firm foundation for doing so. We as Catholics should know this (as these forums sometimes very eloquently show) because we sometimes come under ignorant attacks by people from the outside of our Church.
“Catholics worship Mary,” “Catholics are idoloters,” “Catholic priests are all gay,” etc. The best defense is to say,“What’s your source?” and then refute the ignorant source with the real teaching of the Church. And if we want to be able to that for ourselves, we need to extend that right, that assumption, to others. I have never heard, until today, the argument that Jews were at the root of “Xmas,” though I have heard that it was an effort by business people/advertisers to not offend non-Christians (told me by the church of my youth). I assure you I write out the words “Christmas.”


#17

[quote=JKirkLVNV]The point I would humbly make is this: when we accuse someone of something, we need to have a firm foundation for doing so. We as Catholics should know this (as these forums sometimes very eloquently show) because we sometimes come under ignorant attacks by people from the outside of our Church.

[/quote]

A number of years ago our diocese newspaper used XMAS in its headline - they rec’d questions about it and the following explanation was reprinted at that time:

"Please be assured that we were not doing something inappropriate in using the abbreviation “Xmas,” nor does it mean that Christ is being removed from Christmas.

The Greek letter “X” (Chi) is an ancient symbol for Christ, as it is the first letter in the Greek word “Christos”; it is frequently used symbolically, intertwined with the Greek letter “P” (Rho) which is the second letter of “Christos.” The use of these ancient abbreviations is very helpful in writing headlines, where space is limited."

This letter was run at least twice after that as I recall in different years and I have never heard from anyone about Jews “perpetrating it on us”.


#18

[quote=JKirkLVNV]I am guessing from your response that you are unable to cite a source for the information whereby you allege that the origin of the X in “Xmas” was Jewish. I haven’t offered any comment other than to correct the misinformation you offered earlier. I would oppose any attack on the faith. I simply do not believe that misinformation is of any particular help to anyone.
[/quote]

This is not the first time time the “cut and paste” posts have been questioned as to POV or accuracy - the OP has refused to provide a url for source. and referring to both the dictionary and EWTN as “pc” sources says a great deal.


#19

[quote=JKirkLVNV]I am guessing from your response that you are unable to cite a source for the information whereby you allege that the origin of the X in “Xmas” was Jewish. I haven’t offered any comment other than to correct the misinformation you offered earlier. I would oppose any attack on the faith. I simply do not believe that misinformation is of any particular help to anyone.
[/quote]

This is not the first time time the “cut and paste” posts have been questioned as to POV or accuracy - the OP has refused to provide a url for source. and referring to both the dictionary and EWTN as “pc” sources says a great deal.


#20

Thank you, I guess EWTN is not sufficient enough, please note that many on this board are either non Catholics or liberal Catholics who subscribe to the errors of Ecumenism and would love nothing more than to see us even weaker than we are now. I guess they have a hard time believing that the Jewish people are against Christmas as they are worried that, as predisposed we are now in this country to even thinking that a Jewish person can be totally against Catholicism and Christmas for fear of getting called that dredded word Anti_____. There are no laws protecting us, a Jew can desecrate a church, bomb it, write on it in spray paint “Jesus is a ____” and they would NOT get prosecuted under any hate crime, even though they have perpetuated hate on Christians for centuries, but if a non-Jew even insinuates something that could be taken as offensive, get yourself a good lawyer. Double standard is right. And as far as writing X-Mas that is so offensive to Catholics that I would suggest you learn a little sensitivity to Catholics and I recommend that you go touch base with your patriarch.

[quote=John TE]Whatever the history of “Xmas” may be, we have real evidence today from the Jewish Anti-Defamation League’s suppression of Christ during Christmas in their “December dillema” propaganda campaign.

Each year the ADL informs all American schools and institutions that snowflakes and snowmen are acceptable holiday decorations but that nothing even remotely related to Christ can be tolerated. This is the same ADL that enjoys direct communication with the Vatican in matters of Jewish interests.

Further, CrusaderNY has raised a valid point: that the Jewish slander for our Lord and His Blessed Mother in their Kabbalah and Talmud has never been apologized for or even addressed, despite the Pope’s never ending groveling before the rabbis.

There is a clear double standard being practiced here, and this should be a cause for concern for all Christians.
[/quote]


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