John 10:34-36


#1

When posting with a Muslim on these foums about the divinity of Jesus, he quoted this verse -

How would you explain this passage?

Thank you in advanced
Josh


#2

According to the Ignatius Catholic Study Bible:

The psalm [Psalm 82] is a prayer for Yahweh to punish the corrupt shepherds of Israel. These leaders, who are charged with teaching and enforcing divine Law, are called “gods” by the Psalmist because of the divine authority they wield over the people. The abuse of this power makes their corruption all the more insidious. Jesus reasons that if sinful authorities are given a divine title because of their duties, how much more is he entitled to it who is guiltless and speaks the words of God ([John] 8:45-47).


#3

That’s what I don’t get, if Jesus is the preist of El Elyon, why aren’t you honoring none other than El Elyon!?

In not doing so, you’re breaking the first two commandments!

  1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me. (Including Jesus, Mary and any other being).
  2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

The majority of crosses in church depict Jesus dead, graven image.

Hebrews 7:11-28
New International Version (NIV)
Jesus Like Melchizedek

11 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood—and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood—why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? 12 For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also. 13 He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar. 14 For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests. 15 And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, 16 one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is declared:

“You are a priest forever,
in the order of Melchizedek.”[a]
18 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

20 And it was not without an oath! Others became priests without any oath, 21 but he became a priest with an oath when God said to him:

“The Lord has sworn
and will not change his mind:
‘You are a priest forever.’”**
22 Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantor of a better covenant.

23 Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24 but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25 Therefore he is able to save completely[c] those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

26 Such a high priest truly meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. 27 Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. 28 For the law appoints as high priests men in all their weakness; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.**


#4

Jesus was saying the same thing that’s written in Psalms 82:6 which EVERYONE is so quick to quote, but so quick to leave off Psalms 82:7.

Psalm 82:6-7
King James Version (KJV)
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

Notice he didn’t say children of Yahweh, or Jehovah, or Jesus… he said THE MOST HIGH, EL ELYON.


#5

Thank you Mark1124, that makes more sense. :thumbsup:


#6

Actually, you’re wrong. God is mistranslated from Elohim.

Tehillim 82
Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)
82 (Mizmor of Asaph.) Elohim standeth in the Adat El; He judgeth among the elohim [See Ps 82:6 and Yn 10:34].
2 Ad mosai (How long) will ye judge unjustly, and show partiality to the resha’im? Selah.
3 Defend the poor and yatom (fatherless); do justice to the oni (afflicted) and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy; rid them out of the yad resha’im.
5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in choshech; all the foundations of ha’aretz are shaken.
6 I have said, elohim ye are; and all of you are Bnei HaElyon.
7 But ye shall die like adam, and fall like one of the sarim (princes).
8 Arise, Elohim, judge ha’aretz; for Thou shalt inherit kol HaGoyim.

So, it’s Elohim, not Yahweh who stands among the elohim (notice the upper and lower case on Elohim, much like when Christ said you are gods, he didn’t say Gods).

Then @ 6, it says you are all sons (Bnei) of (Ha) Most High (Elyon) (again, NOT YAHWEH).


#7

I work for the creator of all, the most high God. El Elyon:

Exodus 23:20-21
New King James Version (NKJV)
The Angel and the Promises

20 “Behold, I send an Angel before you to keep you in the way and to bring you into the place which I have prepared. 21 Beware of Him and obey His voice; do not provoke Him, for He will not pardon your transgressions; for My name is in Him.

“My name is in him”, can anyone guess who he’s talking about?


#8

“My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. I and my Father are one.” (John 10:29-30) Clearly, the first commandment doesn’t prevent Jesus from claiming identity with the Father. Yet, “then the Jews took up stones again to stone him” (John 10:31) – so, you’re not the only one who has problems with Jesus’ statement of divinity – so did the Jews of His day!

  1. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

“And the Lord said unto Moses, ‘Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.’ And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.” (Numbers 21:8-9)

So… a ‘graven image’ is OK – as long as God says it’s ok. Fair enough?

"Jesus answered and said unto [Nicodemus], “as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.” (John 3:10, 14-15)

So, Jesus – who is divine and One with the Father – must be lifted up just as the serpent was lifted up by Moses at God’s command, in order to be gazed upon by the people. That would seem to be sufficient to explain why it’s legitimate to lift up an image of Jesus on the cross, wouldn’t it? After all, Jesus commanded it! :wink:


#9

Colossians 2:18
King James Version (KJV)
18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

Revelation 21:8
New King James Version (NKJV)
8 But the cowardly, unbelieving,[a] abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4
King James Version (KJV)
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God,** or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God**.

Come on man, read! <3


#10

2 Thessalonians 2:10-12
New King James Version (NKJV)

10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


#11

I don’t worship angels, I worship Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who is “one with the Father”. :wink:

Revelation 21:8
New King James Version (NKJV)
8 But the cowardly, unbelieving,[a] abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Hmm… I guess Moses is an ‘idolater’, then, since he created a bronze serpent (at God’s command)?

Come on man, read! <3

I am, man, I am… and I’m amazed that you’re reading the same texts but yet “have eyes and do not see”… :frowning:


#12

I’ve never won more than a couples of bucks on the lottery, but I’m willing to guess.
I guess you think he’s talking about you.
Do I win a prize?
Actually for Lent, I’m going to try to give up being an idiot.

Pray to grow in love, dude.


#13

Could you please explain this another way so that I may further understand? I am unsure what your saying, I don’t know who/what ‘Bnei of ha’ is or ‘Elyon’.

I am mainly after an answer explaining what Jesus means by saying what he did in that passage I quoted above.

Thanks for your help though ASonOfGod

Thank you for reading
Josh


#14

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