John 3:16 And Outside The Church There Is No Salvation


John 3:16 says “For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting.”

This implies that if you don’t believe in Him you will perish. I think we need to also look at:

John 3:5 “Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”

Baptism is necessary for salvation. And look at

John 20:23 “Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.”

Reconciliation is necessary for salvation and most importantly keep in mind

John 6:54 “Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you.”

Did Vatican II intend to defy and nullify the Book of John and the salvation value of the Sacraments?


steve49 #1
Did Vatican II intend to defy and nullify the Book of John and the salvation value of the Sacraments?

Definitely not. Vatican II, Lumen Gentium, 14 teaches:
“Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it, or to remain in it.”

Christ’s Church knew from the beginning that non-Catholics could be saved:
Pope St Clement knew that non-Catholics could be saved from the beginning, for he wrote in about 95 A.D. to the Church in Corinth: “Those who repented for their sins, appeased God in praying and received, salvation even though they were aliens to God.” Catholic Apologetics Today, 1986, Fr William G Most, p 145].

This is the reality:
“By Faith it is to be firmly held that outside the Apostolic Roman Church none can achieve salvation. This is the only ark of salvation. He who does not enter into it will perish in the flood. Nevertheless, equally certainly it is to be held that those who suffer from invincible ignorance of the true religion, are not for this reason guilty in the eyes of the Lord. Now, then, who could presume in himself an ability to set the boundaries of such ignorance, taking into consideration the natural differences of peoples, land, native talents, and so many other factors” (Pope Pius IX, Singulari Quidem, 1863 A.D.).[My emphasis].

The use of that phrase was as Saint John Paul II explains in *Threshold of Hope *(Random House, 1994, p 140-1):
“Besides formal membership in the Church, the sphere of salvation can also include other forms of relation to the Church. Paul VI expressed this same teaching in his first encyclical, Ecclesiam Suam, when he spoke of the various circles of the dialogue of salvation (Cf. p 101-117), which are the same as those indicated by the Council as the spheres of membership in and of relation to the Church. This is the authentic meaning of the well-known statement ‘Outside the Church there is no salvation.’ ”

However an individual is saved, it is only through Christ’s Catholic Church, whether they know that or not.


Baptism is necessary for salvation, in some form. A person can be saved by a baptism of desire, even an implicit baptism of desire (by an act of true selfless love of God or neighbor). The Beatitudes are essentially a description of different ways to obtain a baptism of desire implicitly.

Persons who have no explicitly accepted Christ, can be saved by accepting Him implicitly, but accepting love of God or at least a true selfless love of neighbor.


Those whodon’t know Jesus, still may be saved bysearching for Him.

Those who believe in Jesus, will get baptised as soon as possible. If they die before that, they are baptised “by intention”.

Those who are baptised, but never confessed their sins, still may experience perfect contrition, if they don’t know what a confession is or it is unavailable to them.

Finally, those believers, who are sorry for their sins, but have never taken the Eucharist, have a chance of salvation, but it is very hard for them, as a person who does not eat will not live for long.


No because Vatican 2 teaches the same thing those passages teach: belief in Jesus, Baptism, and the Eucharist are all necessary for salvation. And so is Reconciliation for those who have committed mortal sin after Baptism.

The Church Fathers and Vatican 2 Also teach that invincible ignorance can sometimes excuse people from sin. This includes when people don’t know those Sacraments are necessary.

See here for more info on invincible ignorance in the Church Fathers:

Scripture, Church Fathers, and Medieval Doctors on the Possibility of Salvation for Non-Catholics


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