JamesSwan << Note this part of Mateo’s quote: “and earth, must…have a heart” . Those three little dots “…” mean that he has left some material out. Now this might appear to be nitpicking to you. I can assure you, the quote, as it stands cited by you, is more innacurate than Mateo. >>
You are right, I did forget the ellipses. However, this is cleared up by checking the source that Fr. Mateo is using: Max Thurian’s book Mary, Mother of All Christians.
The full quote from Luther (again, the German WEIMAR edition of Luther’s Works, not the English Pelikan translation) is the following:
“She, the Lady above heaven and earth, must forget her goods, have a heart so humble that she might have no shame in washing the swaddling clothes or preparing a bath for John the Baptist like a servant girl (in the house of Elizabeth). What humility! it would surely have been more just to have arranged for her a golden coach, pulled by 4,000 horses and to cry and proclaim as the carriage proceeded: ‘Here passes the woman who is raised far above all women, indeed above the whole human race’ …but no, she makes her long journey on foot, first one mile, then twenty, then more and yet she is already the Mother of God! It would have been more just surely that all the hills should leap and dance!”
The reference in Thurian (page 79-80) to this Luther quotation is Feast of the Visitation, July 2, 1532, and the endnote 15 (page 198) reads: WEIMAR, 36: 208, 19 to 26.
Looks like the three words Fr. Mateo (and myself) left out was “forget her goods.” Doesn’t seem to change the passage any, and there’s more there in Thurian.
The next Luther quotation is fuller in Thurian as well, and goes like this:
“When the Virgin received the acclamation of Elizabeth as being the blessed Mother of God, because she had believed and because all was coming to pass as the angel had spoken, she was not filled with pride by this praise which no other woman had ever yet spoken to her – this immense praise: ‘No woman is like unto thee! you are more than an empress or a queen! you are more than Eve or Sarah; blessed above all nobility, wisdom or saintliness!’ No, she was not filled with pride by this lofty, excellent and super-abundant praise…”
The reference in Thurian (page 80) to this Luther quotation is Feast of the Visitation, July 2, 1537 and the endnote 16 (page 198) reads: WEIMAR, 45: 105, 7 to 106, 1.
The Luther quotations above from Thurian are exactly [sic] as he has them, with lower case “you [sic] are more than an empress or a queen! you [sic] are more than Eve or Sarah” and lower case “it [sic] would surely have been more just” and with ellipses after the words “whole human race” etc. There I’m definitely not nit picking now.
This is all the info I have on these quotes, until I can find this in the original German WEIMAR edition of Luther’s Works.
In fact, I will gladly PHOTOCOPY the pages of the German WEIMAR, and mail them to you, once I find them (unless they are online, I’ll just provide a link). And I’ll toss in a free copy of the 500-page out of print 1894 book The Primitive Church and the See of Peter by Luke Rivington, since I’m in the process of cranking out a few more copies of this masterpiece.
You can go ahead and post this on the other Luther board where you said I was sloppy, incompetent, a liar or whatever. Just kidding. :eek:
BTW, the main source Thurian recommends on this subject is the following:
“One should not normally embark on this subject until one has read the magnificent book Das Marienlob der Reformatoren of W. Tappolet, Katzmann, Tubingen, 1962. See the very good analysis of R. Stadler, ‘The Holy Virgin in the Reformers’ in Choisir 31, May 1962, pp. 17-20.” (Thurian, page 196-197)
And just so I stress this point: Thurian was a CALVINIST at the time he wrote Mary, Mother of All Christians (1960s). And yes, he became a Catholic in the 1980s I believe.