John Huss and the Council of Constance


The older reasoning was the good reasoning. You can never have a separation church and state. Some sort of religion or ideology will be pushed by the state. It does seem like the Church has acquiesced to Enlightenment ideology. But this too shall pass.


We still have concordats and places where Catholicism is the established religion. What the Church opposed was the separation of the truth and civil society, which often went by the name “separation of Church and State.” Leo XIII supported the separation of Church and State in the proper sense:

Immortale Dei

  1. The Almighty, therefore, has given the charge of the human race to two powers, the ecclesiastical and the civil, the one being set over divine, and the other over human, things. Each in its kind is supreme, each has fixed limits within which it is contained, limits which are defined by the nature and special object of the province of each, so that there is, we may say, an orbit traced out within which the action of each is brought into play by its own native right.

Of course, since they are both responsible for the good of all, they should work together in harmony.

I don’t see how it is any different now. The Church also still teaches the state should base its decisions on divine truth, and not exclude it. See for example CCC 2105 and 2244.


We are judging 16th century behaviors with 21st century glasses, and we are wearing no clothes. The problem is that so many cannot separate Church teaching from the behavior of her members. Although, I could easily claim that I could never be Lutheran due to their persecution and murder of the Anabaptists.

Not being relativistic, but there is blood on all hands.


@Genesis315 All fair points. So in these issues, would you say the fault lies in the laity, and in the clergy for not properly catechising them, and for themselves not upholding/reiterating the teachings of the church?


I agree that the state will always push a “religion.” What did Jesus mean when He said his kingdom was not of this world?


But the world can be closer or further away from Jesus’ Kingdom. In our efforts we should make the world as close to Jesus’ Kingdom as we can.


Also, what’s your view on this:


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