[quote=Manphibian]In any case. Would some Catholics worshipping Mary disqualify the truth of Catholicism? Absolutely Not. My point was that the church, with examples like JP2 in roles of major authority, many quotes and encyclicals can be very misleading, such as “Totus Tuus”, etc.
But it isn’t misleading. You realized as much as I did when you first read it that JPII wasn’t actually putting Mary first.
I have to disagree on intent. When a pagan cult worships “god” without ever hearing the gospel and sacrifice their children, then their intentions to please God have just gone down the proverbial potty. If my intent is to worshop Christ and yet I spend as much, if not more time praying the rosary ( I know it’s considered a gospel prayer, but it says Hail Mary, not Hail Jesus 5 million times.), and praying to saints and Mary, then I am definetly failing to honor Christ above all else.
P.S. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
I agree about the road to hell, but I’m talking about the individual culpability of Christians. If the Christian does not intend to give latria to Mary, then I seriously doubt latria is given (in the context of prayer to Mary and such).
But your mother in law brought a regular person (no offense to your wife, who is probably a saint!) into the world. - My wife thanks you.
Hello wife of Manphibian!!!
She is a great role model and a great HUMANBEING, not a deity. She certainly was full of Grace, beyond all measure, but that grace was a gift from her God, as well as the fruit of her womb. Mary’s gracefulness, and even her sinlessness ( if one subscribes to that beleif) could not merit anything from God, no one’s own righteousness can.
And we’re all in agreement here…
Christ was and is a free gift, none of us, even the blessed virgin could merit such a gift. So you see, Jesus Christ is the one and only person in history who deserves reverant prayer and worship, Mary’s righteousness, like Joseph’s, Abraham’s, etc. could never save anyone from hell.
Prayer is just asking someone something. Worship, indeed, is due to God and to God alone. Prayer and worship can be the same, but they don’t necessarily have to be. I think we agree that only God saves.
Can you find anything logically or rationally wrong with the official Catholic belief?