Joseph Smiths own words

Give me your input as Mormons on the following found at the Utah Lighthouse Mission: It is very telling, very real. When I speak deeply about Christ and His nature I hear similar quotes from some here in Utah. It is as if a mask falls off. I once spent many hours with one who is very LDS here in Utah. At the end of the night he surprised me with this quote: “You think a lot of that Jesus don’t you?”. With a chill I said “yes I do”. When I spoke of Trinity to two Missionaries the other night the elder one laughed. I let him know that he was laughing at Christianity and at Christ Himself. He went silent. Here it is:

“Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet…When they can get rid of me, the devil will also go.” (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 408, 409) - Joseph Smith: founder, prophet, seer, and revelator of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Dedicated to my Grandpa

My Mother and Father

When I was just a young child of 4 I was taught about this Jesus that Joseph Smith brought foreword. I remember lying in my grandmother’s arms as she spoke to me about two brothers who lived in the kingdom of heaven with God their father. As I remember it, one was asked to go down to earth and save all of mankind using a humble approach and a cross to pierce the hearts of a lost human race. The other brother who was not chosen felt that he could go down to earth and whip them all into shape , to make them obedient to God’s will. When Jesus was chosen Lucifer rebelled. As I grew a bit older there was one shining bright morning star that began to transform this little guys heart. My grandfather sitting in his garden told my inquiring mind why he did not go to church with grandma and I. He told me that he was not good enough to go. He planted the seed that was to grow in me, bringing me God’s gift of unconditional love. My grandpa showed me the pain of the heart while Christ in him pointed this young child to a path that would lead to this broken heart, into a broken home, into His Church. Established for the poor in Spirit, for those who do not feel good enough to enter. I was baptized Catholic five years ago in Logan Utah. My cry now has become the cry of a grandfather sitting in his garden in a distant past full of joy and many failures. Grandpa, I to am not good enough! And in that I have found a place where I know I never will be. But in the arms of my savior everything is possible. I love you grandpa! Thank you for showing me that great men and women will never be good enough to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. But with Christ we will meet again.

[quote=rich123456]Give me your input as Mormons on the following found at the Utah Lighthouse Mission: It is very telling, very real. When I speak deeply about Christ and His nature I hear similar quotes from some here in Utah. It is as if a mask falls off. I once spent many hours with one who is very LDS here in Utah. At the end of the night he surprised me with this quote: “You think a lot of that Jesus don’t you?”. With a chill I said “yes I do”. When I spoke of Trinity to two Missionaries the other night the elder one laughed. I let him know that he was laughing at Christianity and at Christ Himself. He went silent. Here it is:

“Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet…When they can get rid of me, the devil will also go.” (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 408, 409) - Joseph Smith: founder, prophet, seer, and revelator of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Dedicated to my Grandpa

My Mother and Father

When I was just a young child of 4 I was taught about this Jesus that Joseph Smith brought foreword. I remember lying in my grandmother’s arms as she spoke to me about two brothers who lived in the kingdom of heaven with God their father. As I remember it, one was asked to go down to earth and save all of mankind using a humble approach and a cross to pierce the hearts of a lost human race. The other brother who was not chosen felt that he could go down to earth and whip them all into shape , to make them obedient to God’s will. When Jesus was chosen Lucifer rebelled. As I grew a bit older there was one shining bright morning star that began to transform this little guys heart. My grandfather sitting in his garden told my inquiring mind why he did not go to church with grandma and I. He told me that he was not good enough to go. He planted the seed that was to grow in me, bringing me God’s gift of unconditional love. My grandpa showed me the pain of the heart while Christ in him pointed this young child to a path that would lead to this broken heart, into a broken home, into His Church. Established for the poor in Spirit, for those who do not feel good enough to enter. I was baptized Catholic five years ago in Logan Utah. My cry now has become the cry of a grandfather sitting in his garden in a distant past full of joy and many failures. Grandpa, I to am not good enough! And in that I have found a place where I know I never will be. But in the arms of my savior everything is possible. I love you grandpa! Thank you for showing me that great men and women will never be good enough to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. But with Christ we will meet again.

[/quote]

Amen to that rich.

Rich…LDS ARE NOT Christians…regardless of what they tell you. In Joseph Smith’s own words, he is a blasphemer and his religion is another apostate. LDS is a cancer because they sale this big package of lies upon vulnerable people and they suck them into a path that will surely lead them to damnation. Joseph Smith was so wrong in what he said…Christ did in fact create the Catholic Church and it is still in existence today…individuals come and go, but the Church remains and will remain until the end of time…what is Joseph Smith’s excuse for there not being an LDS church for approximately 1800 years if they are in fact, “the one true church”…which is a bunch of bs…I really make these guys mad when they approach me, because I try to convert them to Catholicism and they get pissed and storm away mad.

[quote=rich123456]Give me your input as Mormons on the following found at the Utah Lighthouse Mission: It is very telling, very real. When I speak deeply about Christ and His nature I hear similar quotes from some here in Utah. It is as if a mask falls off. I once spent many hours with one who is very LDS here in Utah. At the end of the night he surprised me with this quote: “You think a lot of that Jesus don’t you?”. With a chill I said “yes I do”. When I spoke of Trinity to two Missionaries the other night the elder one laughed. I let him know that he was laughing at Christianity and at Christ Himself. He went silent. Here it is:

“Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet…When they can get rid of me, the devil will also go.” (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 408, 409) - Joseph Smith: founder, prophet, seer, and revelator of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

[/quote]

Thank you my friend. Catholics need to know that they are from the original article. It’s all in knowing Christ. Who he is - who we are.

Some would like you and I to beleive that the Bible has been corrupted. Who would this be? There is one greater than you and I, and this one wants you and I to spend an eternity with Him.

Wanting to gain the world, all those things that we as humans would naturally want in heaven is corruption. And who is it that offers us these things? All our earthy hopes and desires? Jesus taught us in the dessert that things offered are not always good. Not because they are necessarily bad, but rather that they are not offered by God. It is not our desire as Christians to excel to Godhood. Rather it is to spend an eternality with God our Creator by coming into a personal relationship with his only Son Jesus. It’s a gift of adoption, not a rite.

Something of interest that I’ve noticed since leaving the LDS church. Mormons believe that we are in the process of “perfecting” ourselves here on earth and that process will continue after death. That means for a Mormon to feel like he or she is going to the Celestial kingdom he needs to be making good progress toward perfection by mid-life. This leads to pronounced self righteousness and a certain inability to look objectively at one’s own sinfulness. I’ve noticed this especially in my own Mother, brothers and sisters and cousins (all are LDS).

As a Catholic, the older I get the more humble I become because with each year the truth of my distance from God becomes more apparant. It seems like my sins are ever before me and I must continually rely on the mercy of God. I think, for my LDS family members, the opposite is true. If they haven’t made progress toward perfection they feel like failures. This leads them to an almost pathological inability to look objectively at their sins. Rather than growing in humilty, they are forced to grow in self-righteousness so that they can feel like they’re going to heaven.

We as Catholics know there is nothing we can do to perfect ourselves. Only God can perfect us. While we are obligated to make every effort to avoid sin, we know that we can never earn our salvation. It is a gift. It’s a subtle difference but an important one to distinguish.

I could not agree with you more. You seem to have received honest revelation! To think of all those who have received the same for two thousand years is breathtaking. We have a desire to be with God, it simply is enough. We spend our lives wanting to grow up and be something and yet God only wants the child in us. I really have no desire to dream about rewards in heaven, I put that in Gods hands. But the child part really sounds good. I am sure you will enjoy the following:

Humility is a supernatural virtue whereby one is enabled to make a true and just estimate of himself and is inclined to hold himself and his accomplishments in contempt in recognition that all good arises from God alone. It is said “dependence on God gives wings to prayer” St. Ignatius terms it a relinquishment of “self-will, self-love, and self-interests.” It is positive in not seeking honors and esteem of others, and self-condemning because man knows evil is his own doing. Humility is exercised toward God and neighbors: toward God who as the Creator gives man whatever he possesses, and toward one’s neighbors by recognizing their worth in the eye’s of God. This virtue is the opposite of pride and self pursuit, which is the root of all evil; hence humility is basic to the practice of all the virtues. It is fundamental of prayer, notably the prayer of simplicity, for Christ rewarded the Syro-phoenician women for her humility (Mk 7:26-30); it is likewise to be found in Christ’s example (Phil 2:1-11)

"We should pray to the divine Spirit for the grace to be genuinely self denying. In this is a release like know other, a treasure found in heaven.

And once more…There will true Glory be, where no one will be praised by mistake or flattery; true honor will not be refused to the worthy, nor granted to the unworthy; likewise, no one unworthy will pretend to be worthy, where only those who are worthy will be admitted. Their true peace will reign, where no one will experience opposition either from self or others. God himself will be virtue’s reward; he gives virtue and has promised to give “Himself” as the best and greatest reward that could exist…“I shall be their God and they will be my people…” This is also the meaning of the Apostle’s words: “So that God may be all in all.” God himself will be the goal of our desires; we shall contemplate him without end, love him without end, and praise him without weariness. This gift, this state, this act, like eternal life itself, will assuredly be common in all…Catholic ecyclopedia

" It’s a subtle difference but an important one to distinguish"

I feel that it is a bit more than subtle. If only they could come to know what it is that you know!!!

God Bless

I have been told that to belive there are many Gods but belive in just one is Henotheism. What I found says Mormons are Polytheists, that should be Henotheism.

I believe that uniChristian just posted that Mormons are Polytheistic. From my vantage point I think there are many Mormons who do not know the leaders of the LDS Church are Polytheistic. So I did a search to find the truth of LDS Polytheism.

Joseph Smith stated, *“I wish to declare I have always and in all congregations when I have preached on the subject of the Deity, it has been the plurality of Gods” (History of the Church 6:474). *

Brigham Young, the second prophet and president of the LDS Church, said, *“How many Gods there are, I do not know. But there never was a time when there were not Gods…” (Journal of Discourses 7:333). *

Mormon Apostle Orson Pratt taught, *“We were begotten by our Father in Heaven; the person of our Father in Heaven was begotten on a previous heavenly world by His Father; and again, He was begotten by a still more ancient Father, and so one, from one generation to generation” (The Seer, pg. 132). *

Joseph Smith declared, *“God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 345). *

Mormon Apostle John Widtsoe stated, *“God and man are of the same race, differing only in their degrees of advancement” (Gospel Through the Ages, pg. 107). *

Mormon Apostle Parley P. Pratt’s stated, *“God, angels, and men are all of the same species, one race, one great family…” (Key to the Science of Theology, 1978 ed., pg. 21). *

Joseph Smith stated, *“We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see” (Teachings, pg. 345). *

Joseph Smith taught, *“The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s” (D&C 130:22). *

Brigham Young said, “Some would have us believe that God is present everywhere. It is not so” (Journal of Discourses 6:345).

[quote=Exporter]I have been told that to belive there are many Gods but belive in just one is Henotheism. What I found says Mormons are Polytheists, that should be Henotheism.
[/quote]

Polytheism is belief in many gods (Mormonism).

Henotheism is the belief in many gods, but the worship of only one of them.

Monotheism is belief in one God (Judaism, Christianity).

Mormons don’t qualify as henotheists because they worship three separate gods which they call the “Trinity” – Heavenly Father, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost. But “Trinity” to them means three separate gods united in purpose.

:whacky: Jay

[quote=Katholikos]Polytheism is belief in many gods (Mormonism).

Henotheism is the belief in many gods, but the worship of only one of them.

Monotheism is belief in one God (Judaism, Christianity).

Mormons don’t qualify as henotheists because they worship three separate gods which they call the “Trinity” – Heavenly Father, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost. But “Trinity” to them means three separate gods united in purpose.

:whacky: Jay
[/quote]

Actually, Jay it’s even more complex than that. Mormons believe that Father, Son and Holy Ghost are three separate gods, but they only worship God the Father.

They are not allowed to pray to or worship Jesus or the Holy Ghost (our spirit brothers), because these will be worshipped eventually by their own spirit children when they get their own planets. In LDS theology, worship is reserved only for one’s heavenly father, not heavenly brothers.

Mormons are especially discouraged from trying to develop a personal relationship with Jesus. One of the apostles (Peterson?) gave a really disturbing address about that at BYU. I have a copy of it somewhere.

This is even more strange in light of the Book of Mormon. In 3rd Nephi it says that when Jesus appeared to the Nephites and Lamanites, they worshipped him and prayed to him. But modern LDS are forbidden to do so. Then again the BoM was written several years before Joseph developed his multiple-god theology.

God bless,
Paul

I checked my copy of the speech. It was actually apostle Bruce R. McConkie. The speech created quite a furor and he had to retract some of it.
Paul

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.