JP II same as Elvis??


#1

Here is an email from the office I wanted to share:

[font=Arial]Rich,[/font]

[font=Arial]As a baptist how do I feel about the passing of the Pope?[/font][font=Arial] [/font]

[font=Arial]What makes a person great? Is it a subjective measure which you point to by referring to the adoration and outpouring of emotions regarding the passing of the Pope. Or is it an objective measure?[/font]

[font=Arial][/font][font=Arial]I would submit it is only by an objective measure by a supreme being who has demonstrated through His creative action and His Sacrificial Atonement. He indicates “there is NONE righteous, no not one:”[/font]

[font=Arial][/font][font=Arial]I measure greatness only as God measures greatness. There seems to be two primary qualifications. I believe it requires Faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation and then being a servant.[/font]

[font=Arial][/font][font=Arial]Rich, I truly do not know anything about the Pope other than what I read and hear. Jesus is the Judge who knows the heart but I close again by stating I firmly believe Faith and Faith alone grants you salvation. There are going to many people who do great things from a human perspective but God will greet them with these horrifying words, “Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.” [/font]

[font=Arial][/font][font=Arial]So to answer your question I place no significant value in the outpouring of emotions regarding the Pope’s death. There are plenty of reasons. I never knew Him. He never had any real effect on my life. I did not understand the fascination concerning the outpouring of emotions regarding Princess Diana’s death. I certainly do not wish any ill-wish on anyone death but the Pope is far removed from my world. People die everyday and I think we romanticize the life of others when there is no real connection. People poured out emotions when Elvis died and for what. Because he sang and danced well. We live in a crazy world and I will not be caught up in the frenzy. People go into a frenzy when Michael Jackson comes to town so the mere fact that many people react in a certain in response to the passing of the Pope does not prove anything as it relates to what is right or wrong. Greatness is not a popularity contest. Today there are countless people who will be judged great in the kingdom and when they die it will hardly be a blip in the landscape of life. No one will even take notice when they die outside a select few but they will have spent a lifetime giving for the kingdom. It is not so much about what the WORLD says but what does GOD say. That is what I am living for and striving for.[/font]

[font=Arial][/font][font=Arial]As I close please do not misunderstand. I am sorry for the loss of life for the Pope but no more and no less than anyone who passes away. [/font][font=Arial][/font]

Ricky


#2

(Your thread title is inaccurate.)

The writer is a Baptist, which means that he doesn’t think Catholicism is correct. So some Catholic asked him what his opinion, as a Baptist, is of the man who headed up a group he thinks is incorrect.

The writer’s worst problem is that he was dumb enough to answer somebody who is disingenuous enough to hold up his answer to public scorn.


#3

[quote=eleusis]Here is an email from the office I wanted to share:

[font=Arial]Rich,[/font]

[font=Arial]As a baptist how do I feel about the passing of the Pope?[/font][font=Arial] [/font]

[font=Arial]What makes a person great? Is it a subjective measure which you point to by referring to the adoration and outpouring of emotions regarding the passing of the Pope. Or is it an objective measure?[/font]

[font=Arial][/font][font=Arial]I would submit it is only by an objective measure by a supreme being who has demonstrated through His creative action and His Sacrificial Atonement. He indicates “there is NONE righteous, no not one:”[/font]

[font=Arial][/font][font=Arial]I measure greatness only as God measures greatness. There seems to be two primary qualifications. I believe it requires Faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation and then being a servant.[/font]

[font=Arial][/font][font=Arial]Rich, I truly do not know anything about the Pope other than what I read and hear. Jesus is the Judge who knows the heart but I close again by stating I firmly believe Faith and Faith alone grants you salvation. There are going to many people who do great things from a human perspective but God will greet them with these horrifying words, “Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.” [/font]

[font=Arial][/font][font=Arial]So to answer your question I place no significant value in the outpouring of emotions regarding the Pope’s death. There are plenty of reasons. I never knew Him. He never had any real effect on my life. I did not understand the fascination concerning the outpouring of emotions regarding Princess Diana’s death. I certainly do not wish any ill-wish on anyone death but the Pope is far removed from my world. People die everyday and I think we romanticize the life of others when there is no real connection. People poured out emotions when Elvis died and for what. Because he sang and danced well. We live in a crazy world and I will not be caught up in the frenzy. People go into a frenzy when Michael Jackson comes to town so the mere fact that many people react in a certain in response to the passing of the Pope does not prove anything as it relates to what is right or wrong. Greatness is not a popularity contest. Today there are countless people who will be judged great in the kingdom and when they die it will hardly be a blip in the landscape of life. No one will even take notice when they die outside a select few but they will have spent a lifetime giving for the kingdom. It is not so much about what the WORLD says but what does GOD say. That is what I am living for and striving for.[/font]

[font=Arial][/font][font=Arial]As I close please do not misunderstand. I am sorry for the loss of life for the Pope but no more and no less than anyone who passes away. [/font][font=Arial][/font]

Ricky
[/quote]

Tell Ricky we don’t believe that we can earn our way into Heaven. He won’t get it and won’t believe it, but you owe it to him to tell him. Then, regarding our Holy Father, remind him of the verse that says,“By their fruit you shall know them.”


#4

I am protestant myself(Methodist), & I am heartbroken at the death of John Paul 2. He was a great & holy Christian gentleman. He was also a great force for good & moral behaviour in a world that seems to have run mad.
I cannot imagine how sad it would be to be a person who calls themself “Christian”, & not be moved.
I pray every day that the cardinals will make a good choice in a new pope. But truly, I cannot imagine one who will be as great as the one who has just gone home to Heaven…


#5

Eleusis, I would tell him that this attitude is far removed from Christ:nope: Jesus cried over Lazerous and he was going to raise him from the dead:( Let me give you a quote from the Holy Father in a book Called “AN INVITATION TO JOY”.Keep in mind Jesus called us to love one another.

"Authenic love is not a vague sentiment or a blind passion.It is an inner attitude that involves the whole human being.It is looking at others,not to use them but to serve them.It is the ability to rejoice with those who are rejoicing and to suffer with those who are suffering.It is sharing what one possesses so that no one may continue to be deprived of what he needs.Love,in a word, is the gift of self."
Your friend does not seem to have much love:nope: That was a cold statement.


#6

Ricky and I have had many many conversations over the last year since he discovered I was a Catholic (He’s a self decribed “Evangelical Baptist” but “only if I must put a title on it”). He made it his life’s work to “convert” me and has become increasingly antagonistic when his various objections to the Catholic faith have been shot down or refuted. The whole works thing ened when he dismissed out of hand the book of James as being improperly understood because Catholics use “improper exegisi and hermanutics” when we read it.

Thanks to you guys for those quotes and additional ideas I can use in later conversations.

Kevan “The writer’s worst problem is that he was dumb enough to answer somebody who is disingenuous enough to hold up his answer to public scorn.”~~ Dude, this is a forum for public discussion, sharing a difficult or bothersome problem without violating a persons privacy is not disingenuous, its why this forum is here, mutual assistance. Heck in his writing with me he takes my letters to his professors at his bible college to share and discuss and returns with their collective discussion (forgetting that sola scriptura says the bible should be self evident and not need a platoon of scholars to refute some office apologist). So, relax, cool your jets and ease off on name calling or intellectual attacks. No one is “dumb” in these types of converstations. Only bigotry is dumb. You wouldn’t happen to be a Protestant would you? That really would explain a lot.


#7

Insofar as commenting on what Ricky had to say, which I think is the main reason why this thread was created, I have to say that I think he is worng.

No-one is supposed to conclude the pope is a great guy because many people were interested in hearing about his passing and many others were moved, NO, so in that sense I agree that you shouldn’t decalre a man great because of that.

However jesus tells where to put the emphasis, on the fruit that he bears. The pope certainly bore good fruit, as noted by a protestant brother a few posts above this one. He served as an agent to retain that moral teaching which truly does homage to the transcendant dignity of the human person. John Paul did this regarding, feminism, abortion, homosexuality, contraception, decmocracy (not to mention the numerous less polemic teachings on forgiveness, repentence, sacrifice, suffering.)

What Ricky was saying reminded me of something I read on a protestant forum. They were saying that they hadn’t heard the media insult John Paul once since his death and that all the attention over it has been benign. And that Jesus said that He and His followers were not of this world but would infact be opposed by the world. Therefore he concluded the Pope was evil because people weren’t expressing oipen hatred.

That is dumb on so many levels!!! i take it that if his local minister became popular he would have to condemn him as heretical too. Not to mention that this guy seemed BLIND to the fact that the Catholic church and especially JP2 has been accused of horrible things, even of assisting murder because they opposed contraception in countries with AIDS.

Aside from that Ricky seemed polite and learned: the way I wish many of out other detractors were.


#8

[quote=eleusis]You wouldn’t happen to be a Protestant would you? That really would explain a lot.
[/quote]

Of course I am. Click my name and choose “View Public Profile.”

Heck in his writing with me he takes my letters to his professors at his bible college to share and discuss and returns with their collective discussion (forgetting that sola scriptura says the bible should be self evident and not need a platoon of scholars to refute some office apologist).

If those are the rules, agreed to by both, then I was wrong. I had written that Ricky was dumb to have trusted you. I see now that you two consider your correspondence to be public rather than personal.

Only bigotry is dumb.

Now, I hope that this brief association with my bad company hasn’t caused you to slip into what you accused me of…


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