Judas Iscariot


#1

I’m wondering what you all think about Judas. Aside from betraying Our Lord, isn’t it questionable that if Jesus knew He was going to die, and how He were to die, He knew that Judas would betray Him, even before he did. Does that mean Judas would be forgiven? Since the devil had gotten into his body, is the blame on Judas? Or is it Our Lord has forgiven him.
Although, I remember Jesus telling Judas “You shall wish you were never born.” If this be the case, Jesus already condemned Judas before Judas even knew he was to betray Him??


#2

What you are talking about is predestination. And the verse you are referring to is: Matt.26:24:* “The Son of man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.” *

Notice that Jesus did not say to Judas: “You shall wish you were never born,” which has a different tone and connotation.

God knows all of our words and deeds before we do them, but he does not make us say or do anything.

And Satan could only enter Judas as described in the NT if Judas had invited evil into his heart, which he did when he decided to betray his Lord and Master.


#3

But Jesus knew this would happen. Is Judas not forgiven? And I was just referring to the line Jesus uttered in the movie “The Passion of The Christ”, maybe not exactly that line, but close enough. :slight_smile:


#4

To be 100% honest, I do not put a lot of time, effort, or thought into this because I do not know the eternal outcome of Judas Iscariot, if he was forgiven or not. That is not my place to determine let alone even speculate. I’ve been on non-Catholic boards that believe without a shadow of doubt that Judas is in Hell and cannot be talked out of it. I just take the position that God is the final authority and let it go.


#5

“Father forgive them for they know not what they do” (Luke 23:34)

In His own words, Jesus forgave His captors and tormentors. Jesus excluded no one.

Judas Iscariot (like all of us) is forgiven for his weakness.

Go with Love, Go with God!


#6

Everyone who desires to be forgiven is forgiven, so it would have been up to Judas to ask for forgiveness. We cannot know if he did that or not, so only God (and Judas) knows if he is in hell or not. What Jesus said does not automatically mean that Judas was doomed to hell. It only meant that the crime Judas committed was that terrible. Of course, Peter committed the same crime when he denied Christ 3 times, but we know he repented and asked for forgiveness and lived to be the first pope.


#7

Yes you are right. I read a book about Anne Catherine Emmerick and in the book toward the very end, she talks about Judas. Remember she had the gift of seeing Our Lord’s Passion, every detail, down to the stripes on his back. She said that when Jesus had died, he descended into Hell and took some souls out. She thought that Judas might have been one of them. One of the best books I ever read. I guess that is why I questioned. Only God knows for sure. LOVE YOU JESUS :gopray2:


#8

I can’t think for you
You’ll have to decide
Whether Judas Iscariot
Had God on his side.
-Bob Dylan


#9

“The Son of man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.”

applies to many people who betrayed and still betray Jesus.if we betray Jesus and repent,He’ll forgive us. So if Judas repented, then he was forgiven…we’re talking about JESUS’ LOVE here :thumbsup:


#10

Salaam;
I always wondered why is Judas Iscariot called a traitor in the first place? How to call a traitor someone who helped the salvation plan come true? Without Judah Iscariot, no salvation, nothing!

Also, if it is Satan who entered Judas Iscariot and made him “betray” his master, then Satan also helped the salvation plan come true! Do you see Satan working against himself? Without Satan, nothing could have happened, no salvation, nothing!

The same can be said about the Jews who took Jesus to the Romans. They also helped in the plan; didn’t they? And what they got? They were persecuted and massacred for centuries, because they were called Jesus killers! Unconventional way to say thank you to those who helped save the humanity from its sins! Without the Jews no salvation, nothing!

Salaam.
Joseph.


#11

good questions…i think we’ll have to tackle the pre-destination/ free-will concepts.


#12

This is definately not my area of expertise. But does Judas ask for forgivness or repent? And even if he was forgiven, wouldn’t his suicide give him an express ticket to hell?


#13

mmmm maybe under strenuous (sp?) mental stress he can be forgiven…:hmmm:


#14

Never Despair of God’s Mercy


#15

Hi Joseph :slight_smile:

Long time no see? I have missed discussing with you! So here I am even though I must be away for some time to complete my project on Islam.

These questions of yours above are excellent indeed. Thanks for the occasion. My short & simple answer to them is a suggestion: why don’t you take into consideration the question whether Jews and Satan knew that their actions would result in the salvation of humanity and whether they had the intent to help Jesus accomplish His plans? I guess the answer is NO!

Another similar question: Did Joseph’s brothers know that his slavery in Egypt would help him become a mighty ruler and dominate over them through God-given gifts? If they had known this, would they have let him survive? Do you think we should praise Joseph’s cruel brothers because they sold him to an Egyptian? Without evil brothers, no bright future for Joseph? Without their cruel plans, no accomplishment of Joseph’s dreams? :confused:

GOD is the Supreme being that uses even evil people and instruments for His benevolent plans. If you believe in Him, you will have no doubt!

Salaam,
Angelos


#16

Salaam Angelos;

[quote=Angelos]Hi Joseph :slight_smile:
Long time no see? I have missed discussing with you! So here I am even though I must be away for some time to complete my project on Islam.
Salaam,
Angelos
[/quote]

Time is a luxury as you know.
So you are on a project on Islam? That’s great. An amical advice though: get acquainted with Arabic.

I will comment on the remaining of your post later. I also need to answer your post about Oral Law and Written Law, watch for that space. InCha’Allah.

Salaam.
Joseph.


#17

All Judas had to do was cry out to his master and ask for forgivness and it would have been given him.

Jesus died on the cross not only for Christians but also for Adolph Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot Idi Amin etc etc. He died for all.

No man is beyone human redemption.

I do not understand the Lord’s words. It is not for me to condemn Judas [or indeed anyone]. I am sure that the Lord wills that no-one remains in their sins and go to hell.

We do not know what lies beyond the grave. It has not been given to us, only that there is an existence and St Paul indicates there are opportunites to be forgiven in the next world.

I think it a very noble duty of Christians to pray for Judas, that Heaven may be opened to him.

Pax Christi


#18

This question seems to come up often in conversation. That is did Judas repent; thus, saved. This is just speculation because we cannot know for sure if he was or was not. Yet it would appear by Judas actions that he did not repent. Sure he returned the money, but if it was done out of repentance then one is moved to make amends for what one has done. Often times people will make apology for actions because of social pressure and a loss of friendships, but not on a supernatural level. In other words carnal forgiveness without seeking out God’s mercy. Judas went off to hang himself this doesn’t seem to be the action of a repentant sinner. Also, St. John calls him a thief in John 12. This of course speaks to Judas character and was written after Jesus showed them many things during the forty days between Passover and Pentecost.

To know something is not to cause something. I might know a family members behaviour is too steal, but because they steal I did not cause it. God knows everything one way because he is outside of time and sees all things. That is different to say we have no choice and he wills everyones actions. You could say that by Judas being saved because he participated in salvation history that Satan should be saved because he has and is working in salvation history, but this is false. God works good out of evil and we do not do the will of God by committing evil acts. That is why Calvinism/Presbyterianism is wrong and anyone who holds to double predestination because they must say that a rapist is doing Gods will, and any sane person can see how that is woefully incorrrect. Last point woe is in scripture is a pronouncemnt of a curse.

I look forward to reading more post on this subject.

God bless,
Eric


#19

I would also add that Judas hanging himself is an act of despair, a loss of hope. Which, when compared with the fact that sinning against the holy spirit is an unforgivable sin - doesn’t bode well for Mr. Iscariot.


#20

If someone knows ahead of time that their child is going to reach into the cookie jar (after they’ve warned them several times not to put their hands into the cookie jar), that child has still done wrong for placing their hands into the cookie jar (even though the parent knew ahead of time that the child was going to do it).

Knowledge of one’s future does not remove the burden of guilt concerning their future actions. It only prophesies of what will surely come to pass.


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