Judas Iscariot's Role as Apostle

The Gospel is pretty clear that some people are in Hell. I know some Hans Urs von Balthasar fans like to think Hell might be empty, but then that makes Jesus a liar.

True. However, the a strong argument can be made that Bible implies pretty strongly that Judas is in Hell.

Yes, it can be implied, but we do not know for sure, unless and until we die ourselves and God sees fit to tell us.

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Hence why I said “True” :slight_smile:

So does Bishop Robert Barron claim that there’s hope the devil can be saved, therefore liberating all demons and non-saints from hell?

I think scripture is pretty clear on the fate of Judas being in hell. There are no other verses that point to Judas being anywhere else. In fact most of the arguments against this belief, usually aren’t based on scripture, but rather the assumption that just because the Church hasn’t dogmatically stated he’s in hell, we therefore have no grounds to say so.

The devil and demons are not “everyone”; they are not humans and the covenant of salvation does not apply to them. They are fallen angels. An angel gets one choice to follow God or to do evil/ follow Satan and that is it. Once the choice is made, they do not get a do-over.

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Our faith is not solely based on Scripture, much less on your (or anyone else’s) opinion on Scripture.

The Church does not declare anyone as being definitely in Hell. If it wished to teach that Judas was definitely in Hell, this would be expressed in the Catechism.

That said, you are free to have an opinion that he’s there, same as you’re free to think Hitler is in Hell, but it’s just your opinion.

The word “everyone” is generally used to refer to human beings. What has he said to make you think he’s referring to demons instead??? :confused:

no, he does not, go watch some of his you tubes, he has a few that deal with the topic of hell.

google Word on Fire and then watch the ones that appeal to you, they are pretty short.

I never said our faith was based solely on scripture, but it doesn’t contradict what’s written in scripture either. And Judas being in hell doesn’t need to be defined in the Catechism for it to be true.

There are plenty of early Church fathers who’ve also supported the belief that Judas is in hell. And as I said earlier the scriptural evidence for Judas being in hell outweighs any evidence that’s he’s not.

It may or may not be “true”. You cannot just state based on your opinion from interpreting Scripture that something is “true” when the Catechism, and no other definitive Church teaching, states it as being the truth.

We need to be careful about expanding “truth” to include our own opinions, conjectures, speculations etc. Bottom line is the Church doesn’t teach that any specific person is in Hell. End of discussion.

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You’re arguing against a position that I’m not advocating. I never said the church has declared that anyone is in hell. So yes, on that point it’s end of discussion.

The Bible says Judas is in hell and it’s not my opinion or my own interpretation, it’s what scripture says. And the Church has never taught that he isn’t in hell.

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