Just An Oppinion, Converts Made The Best Apologist?


#1

Hola amigos:

after hanging in this forum for a while i have almost come to the conclution that protestants convert to catholicism defend the church more and the born catholics i saw them in doubt (of course I AM NOT GENERALIZING) SO I SAID TO THOSE WHO DOUBT “ALZATEVI, ANDIAMO” (GET UP, LETS GO (THE TITTLE OF ONE OF THE LAST BOOKS OF JPII)
1.-How can a convert know more of the CC than one born there???
2.-are we born catholics becoming drowsee??
GET STRONG AND KNOW YOUR CHURCH AND PASS THE MESSAGE AROUND

THIS IS YOUR WAKE UP CALL…GET UP SOLDIER BOYS AND GIRLS


#2

[quote=miguel delgado]Hola amigos:

after hanging in this forum for a while i have almost come to the conclution that protestants convert to catholicism defend the church more and the born catholics i saw them in doubt (of course I AM NOT GENERALIZING) SO I SAID TO THOSE WHO DOUBT “ALZATEVI, ANDIAMO” (GET UP, LETS GO (THE TITTLE OF ONE OF THE LAST BOOKS OF JPII)
1.-How can a convert know more of the CC than one born there???
2.-are we born catholics becoming drowsee??
GET STRONG AND KNOW YOUR CHURCH AND PASS THE MESSAGE AROUND

THIS IS YOUR WAKE UP CALL…GET UP SOLDIER BOYS AND GIRLS
[/quote]

You are without a doubt correct. Most Protestants came to the Catholic Faith through a “conversion” experience. Most Catholics have never had one. Most Catholics feel that they do not need to question and seeks answers to the teachings of the Faith. Most would generally answer the question of why do you believe this or that? With “because the Church teaches that!” Most Protestant converts would answer in this way: “The Catholic Church teaches this because… and in the Catechism it explains… and in the document on… John Paul said…and quoting this Church Father he said…so you see from the very early centuries it has always been taught in the Church!”


#3

Also, even cradle Catholics who know their faith very well might not understand how Protestants understand issues such as salvation as well as a Catholic who had been a Protestant would. That would tend to make the convert more effective in apologetics, because he or she would not only know why the Church teaches what it teaches but also would understand why a Protestant would disagree. The convert would also be able to draw on experiences of which arguments convinced him or her of the truth of the Church.


#4

i’m a convert. not from protestantism. i guess i was born catholic, but indirectly. my ancestors converted to anglicism/episcopalianism, running away from the church teachings. i notice however that they are buried in catholic cemetaries…

any way the point is that converts love the church and do lots of reading and studying out of love for the faith.

i, myself, want to know all i can. i have read the bible from cover to cover many times. the first time everything, now i skip the geneologies and numbers, being as how they don’t really convey (to me) anything.

anyway, converts are motivated to understand.


#5

To be honest with you all, I think that Protestants just study Scripture more. Without the Magesterium, it is up to individual Protestants to make up their minds concerning the interpretation of Scripture. Study of the Word is driven into you at a young age.

For example, my church (Protestant) sponsors Jumior Bible Quiz . . those kids literally memorize multiple chapters of scripture and can quote them back at will. Bible study groups are constantly running.

I think that those coming from Protestantism have much to offer the Catholic Church in terms of zeal for the Word and the importance of study.

Rich B


#6

I’m not a convert from Protestantism, but I’ve found in my personal experiences that I’m far better at apologetics than my cradle-Catholic friends. I think it has to do with the fact that those of us who come in from the outside often have to do a LOT of searching to justify our internal conversion. Speaking for myself, almost EVERYTHING about the Church’s teaching was foreign to my moral and historical understanding, but I was stuck feeling that God is real, and the Church is God’s intended teacher on Earth. I couldn’t get away from this historical and spiritual fact, so it was up to me to delve into the Scriptures, the Fathers, and the modern writings in order to find the explainations and justifications for my questions.

What this means is two things. First I have the conviction that only comes from being forced to change my entire life to suit the Church. The Church isn’t something that was given to me, something that was always there whether I liked it or not, but rather I had to move towards it, and I wasn’t comfortable calling myself a Catholic until I accepted and understood everything I could find about the Church. Second, I have a vast internal library of knowledge that I’ve retained in my searches, much of it dealing specifically with the questions outsiders raise, and I have all that stuff on the tip of my tongue when objections are raised. These are problems that most cradle Catholics have never had to face, so I have a leg up on them purely based on experience. I don’t think it’s so much that cradle Catholics are weaker in their faith, they’ve just never had to put themselves to the fire as people like myself have had to do.


#7

Because the catechetics system in this country is screwed up …all other problems arise from this source.


#8

OK, I’m a cradle Catholic and I think I’ve gotten to be pretty good at apologetics, because I had a conversion experience myself and found myself on-fire for the Faith and needing, absolutely needing to know more. For several years now I have been inhaling anything and everything I can get my hands on regarding Catholicism.

So, I think it’s a matter of having had an experience where you realize that God is real, that the Church is his special gift to the world and you then do something to learn about it.

OK, so now here’s the kicker. I was born and raised Catholic, but in my early 20’s I wandered away from the Church (I got weak in my faith in my teens), and I returned to the Faith at about 40. Have I just disqualified myself as a cradle Catholic?

Either way, I think it’s a matter of having a close experience of coming to know and love God and the Church and questioning some of the teachings but knowing we can’t be cafeteria Catholics. Once you face that fact and then begin to dig into such things as, why does that Church teach against birth control?, it all begins to make sense and you see a cohesiveness to the teachings that reassures you that it could only be divinely inspired.

IMHO,

CARose


#9

I’m not a convert. Maybe I will be sometime. But I have noticed that out of the multitude of Catholics in my class (mostly cradle catholics) there are grand total of 2 that seem to be very attentive to their faith. I could be utterly wrong as I do not know their hearts - this is just an observation. They regard me with exasperated amusement as I flitter around and nag them for books, try to talk theology, and generally get way more excited about the prospect of going to mass then any normal person should.

I’m not trying to sound prideful here…I promise…but I think I could defend the faith better then many of the Catholics in there and I’m still Protestant! I dunno if that’s because they’re cradle catholics or not.

On the other hand…the day we found out B16 was new pope, a very nominal Catholic came in saying that “He was not what the Catholic Church needed right now. We need someone progressive.” A nominal Presbyterian beside me said, “Yeah, he’ll keep the church in the middle ages.” To which I slammed my fist down in true Protestant style (if there was a Bible there, I would have thumped it) and yelled that why should the truth change just because the world did?

I interjected a note of laughter in my voice so soften the blow I guess…they chuckled at me, but shut up. heheh


#10

Just for the record, every one of the Apostles were converts.http://forums.catholic.com/images/icons/icon12.gif


#11

[quote=Br. Rich SFO]You are without a doubt correct. Most Protestants came to the Catholic Faith through a “conversion” experience. Most Catholics have never had one. Most Catholics feel that they do not need to question and seeks answers to the teachings of the Faith. Most would generally answer the question of why do you believe this or that? With “because the Church teaches that!”
[/quote]

That is asking - begging - for trouble: because if the teaching of the Church did not have to be good, there would be no reason to object if it taught the necessity of child sacrifice. Such a practice is evil, so the Church is not free to adopt it - but the reason “The Church teaches X”, is based on authority: and authority can be used to do good - or evil; this reason is morally neutral. The argument from authority, is no protection against defending what is evil, & therefore indefensible: so it is an argument which does not show that what is being defended, is good.

Most Protestant converts would answer in this way: “The Catholic Church teaches this because… and in the Catechism it explains… and in the document on… John Paul said…and quoting this Church Father he said…so you see from the very early centuries it has always been taught in the Church!”

Another problem, relate to the above, is “cultural Christianity” - this is not a purely Catholic problem, but one which tends to crop up where a religion is part of the culture: at least in the West; though it would be surprising if it does not afflict the East as well.

Cultural Christianity is an inherited kind of faith - one which is simply taken for granted; and that is the danger: cultural habits can be left behind, like those of one’s class; and if religion is simply taken for granted, as something in one’s culture, there is absolutely no reason why that should be left behind too. If people are not encouraged to examoine why they do religious things (such as praying), they will either outgrow them, or do them mechanically. In neither case will there be a living faith. This is the best possible way of ensuring that Christians have a purely nominal faith which has little effect on either heart or head. (One of Newman’s early Catholic sermons was about this very problem of a purely cultural, tribal, faith.)

One solution might be to delay Confirmation, or better still, Baptism - then Catholics will be in the Church because they freely chose to be, and not because they were sprinkled with water when they were infants incapable of choosing whether or not to accept the claims of Christ. The Church might well be smaller, but at least no one would be in it against their will or withput having the foggiest idea what they were doing in it. ##


#12

[quote=Curious]I’m not a convert. Maybe I will be sometime. But I have noticed that out of the multitude of Catholics in my class (mostly cradle catholics) there are grand total of 2 that seem to be very attentive to their faith. I could be utterly wrong as I do not know their hearts - this is just an observation. They regard me with exasperated amusement as I flitter around and nag them for books, try to talk theology, and generally get way more excited about the prospect of going to mass then any normal person should.but I think I could defend the faith better then many of the Catholics in there and I’m still Protestant! I dunno if that’s because they’re cradle ca

I’m not trying to sound prideful here…I promise…tholics or not.

On the other hand…the day we found out B16 was new pope, a very nominal Catholic came in saying that “He was not what the Catholic Church needed right now. We need someone progressive.” A nominal Presbyterian beside me said, “Yeah, he’ll keep the church in the middle ages.” To which I slammed my fist down in true Protestant style (if there was a Bible there, I would have thumped it) and yelled that why should the truth change just because the world did?

I interjected a note of laughter in my voice so soften the blow I guess…they chuckled at me, but shut up. heheh
[/quote]

now here is what i meant (please check out the part:: but I think I could defend the faith better then many of the Catholics in there and I’m still Protestant!)

WAKE UP GUYS!!!


#13

Although I do not like to make generalizations about people! I believe that in many cases converts are the most zealous about supporting whatever faith they choose because I see the same thing among converts to other Christian denominations, Judaism, and Islam. Catholic converts actively chose to become Catholic (also those who leave the Church and decide to come back also are very zealous!); they have passion. Plus many Catholics raised within the Catholic Culture take many things for granted when it comes to Catholicism. They are like young children coming to the Kingdom of God as Jesus so vividly detailed in the Gospels. Also, another point… many converts are from families/circle of friends or acquaintances that are non-Catholic…zealotry is shield against anti-Catholicism from non-Catholic family members, friends, etc. Yet, I now some very zelous craddle Catholics!


#14

now here is what i meant (please check out the part:: but I think I could defend the faith better then many of the Catholics in there and I’m still Protestant!)

WAKE UP GUYS!!! !!!

Miguel :frowning:

I certainly didn’t mean to cause trouble. I could be wrong you know. Maybe I DID sound all full of pride or something. :banghead:


#15

Generally, I would agree that Protestants are better, but this is not always true. Let me use myself as an example. A lot that has been said by others here will be supported.

I am a ‘cradle Catholic’. I went to a Catholic school until the 5th grade. During this time it was just my father and I at home. The only time I went to Church was during school, when the kids were upset at having to go. Needless to say, by the time I switched to public school in the 6th grade I was not very spiritual. Though I took had taken religion for 6 years, I knew little of my faith.

Through my three years of middle school religion was not a big deal to me at all. My grandmother made me go to a Catholic bible study group for kids my age. It just upset me more to be forced to go. I found a group of kids I could cause trouble with. In the 8th grade, when I graduated from the class, I went through Confession. I was not anywhere near a strong Catholic. In fact, I started to question why I was a Catholic anymore. I didn’t feel Atheist. I was just about ready to convert to the religion of quite a few of my friends. They go to a UCC (United Church of Christ) church.

I attended a few times, and it seemed goofy to me. The preacher would preach to the group for an hour about a single verse in the Bible. They had these all so great rock tone…real modern right…the problem is that I’m a rock fan and they all sounded like echoes to me. Furthermore a trip to my Baptist grandparent’s house repulsed me from Protestant religions even further. So I started going to the Catholic Church up the street myself. I started asking the Priest questions. I love knowledge. I’ve read works by Plato and Machiavelli. Socrates’ debates thrilled me greatly. So now I was armed with my Catholic ‘faith’ and knowledge. I was ready to debate.

I started debating anyone of any Christian religion. I was dead set to find the truth. I got a Catholic bible and a Protestant one. To sum it up, I now attend Church every weekend, unless I am out of town. I’m open to all religions, but sound in the Catholic religion. I’m still a high schooler and I’ve switched from reading philosophy and physics to theology. I can debate an Atheist or non-Catholic just as well as a convert of MY age can.

So yes, I just think it depends on your mindset. Your mindset often depends on your experiences in life.


#16

**They do make great apologist if they stick with the learning process and keep moving forward. Most of them just like most of us born catholics have a very elementary catholic education. All some of us know is "Pray, Pay, and Obey"
The reason the protestant converts stick out so much is because we dont.

For every great convert you show me, I can show you some that only converted because of a spouse and they still will not talk about Mary, Confession, purgatory, or the Pope.

Some cant stand Mary. If you can believe that.

Show me one convert that is a good truth seeker and I will show you 10 that become self-hating catholics.

PiusX**


#17

Ghotsy … I totally agree with you. As a non-Catholic raised non-denominational who is in the process of converting to Catholicism I have had similar experiences. As a convert there is just more stuff you have to put up with. You have to defend yourself/the Catholic faith against non-Catholics and Cafeteria Catholics (I hate this term) alike. I know more about Catholicism/religion than many cradle Catholics … who are awestruck when I prove them wrong or correct them about their Anti-Catholic “attitudes”. It is not prideful to correct someone who flat out says something wrong about the Catholic Church whether they are Catholic or non-Catholic.


#18

What is a Cafeteria Catholic? Is this someone who is in it for the social aspects? Because then they aren’t Catholic at all, so adding adjectives to it doesn’t matter.

I was Baptised. I went to Confession. I was giving the Body of Christ. I was Confirmed. Yet I was not a Catholic until high school.


#19

As a person who is converting to the CC whom was formally a non-denominational Protestant; the funny thing is that even before deciding to convert to C I believed in the Saints, the Marian doctrine/devotions, confession, and Purgatory. Even before I started studying Catholic theology I believed in Catholicism … so please stop generalizing. Whether you are a Cradle C, raised C, or a C Convert does not matter it is whether you follow C doctrine and believe that matters! Remember what Jesus said about the Scribes, the Pharisees, and the Sadducees!


#20

Miguel,

Many of us cradle Catholics are here because we have already received a “wake up call”. We came here for help.

My wake up call occurred as a result of my non-Catholic wife who challenged me with questions I was not able to answer. Those answers I was able to provide were quite inadequate.

Converts grew up learning not only their religion, but how it differed from the “false teachings” of the Catholic Church. In short, they’re well versed in the accusations against us. Now that they’re enlightened by the truth, they’re well equipt to defend the faith.

As a part of my catechism, I never learned about the beliefs of other Christian denominations. I was blind-sided by a reformation Sunday sermon at my wife’s (Lutheran) church - the first time I ever heard anyone equate the Papacy with the anti-Christ.

The apologists (both convert and cradle) on this site and forum are fantastic. I’ve learned so much and have become an armed Soldier of Christ!

Thank you Karl Keating (a cradle Catholic) and all of you who are here to set the record straight!

spanky


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