Just what are my obligations?


#1

So, exactly what are my obligations. I know people who are cheating the welfare system. One family is selling in black market tobacco, the husband claims sickness benefits, the wife works parttime and collects single parent pension.
Another case I know about, he is on sickness pension as well, paid by government, cause of bad back, yet he is slashing weeds and cleaning bricks, this work requires a healthy back.
The welfare system is a fair system for all, and not to be abused, and it is abused for sure.
I am having trouble reporting them, even though they are wrongfully collecting welfare. I am questioning my motives for doing so. I just want to make sure I am going to do the right thing. Can someone help me out here, I need a bit of backing support. I am finding all excuses for not going ahead in reporting them.

shae


#2

REPORT THEM!

They are stealing…I mean what possible reasons can you have for NOT REPORTING them- do you condone STEALING?

They are stealing from people that ACTUALLY need that money they are stealing from the Goverment (well that is not always bad:rolleyes: ) and they are stealing from all of us tax payers!
Isnt one of God’s Commandments…**THOU SHALT NOT STEAL!!! **



#3

Think about all of the people who claim disability, only to be told they are ineligible b/c their injury (while preventing them from working) does not qualify or some other government mumbo-jumbo way of saying it nicely…the reason the govt is so hard-nosed is because PEOPLE STEAL FROM THEM AND THERE IS ONLY SO MUCH MONEY TO GO AROUND…someone who really deserves it, who has children depending on them, probably cold and hungry children no less…is getting scrod b/c of this person raping the system. Period, end of story.

PS, what you’re doing, while it’s not directly stealing per se, the military refers to that as “tolerance” and it makes you wrong too…


#4

I would report them yesterday!!! People like that make it so hard for people who truly deserve the help finding it harder and harder to recieve anything. :mad: What these people are doing is stealing. I know a man with metal rods in his back, and his left arm will never be the same. (from a major car accident) who tried just to get some “retraining” so he can work at another type of job, (he was a factory worker) not sit home and collect, he gave up waiting for help (over 18 months while they “reviewed” his case) and went back to work at another job paying much less when he was finally able to move around, still uses a cane, he’s only 47. Meanwhile his wife and teenaged son tried to keep things afloat. He did finally recieve the “back payments” of disability, (he does not recieve anything now because he went back to work) but not before he lost his credit and a car reposesed. I makes me sick when someone just wants temporay help and others that take advantage of the system. All he wanted was a helping hand and these slobs sit on their butts because I truly feel they must “know” someone. Am I being a bit cynical maybe but if you knew this nice man and his family you feel the way I do.


#5

It’s easy for everyone to say “report them :mad: !” But these people are obviously people that Shae knows, and I know that I would also be reluctant to report a neighbor. She may be scared of possible retaliation (especially if it is a next-door neighbor or even a relative). These are not strangers to her. But Shae, I am sure there is a way to report them that will not reveal your identity to them, and reporting them is the moral choice. Good luck :thumbsup:


#6

Please don’t confuse this question.

Shae is not asking “what should I do”, in which case you can post your opinions and recommendations as much as you like.

Shae is asking “what am I morally obliged to do”, which means that you should post church teaching on this.

For all I know, Shae might appreciate your suggestions. But I know that for me, when I ask about a moral right or wrong, I don’t always like all the opinions and suggestions I get, I just want to know what the rules are!

Anyway,
I had a look in the CCC, under the bit about the 7th commandment.

**2431 **The responsibility of the state. “Economic activity, especially the activity of a market economy, cannot be conducted in an institutional, juridical, or political vacuum. On the contrary, it presupposes sure guarantees of individual freedom and private property, as well as a stable currency and efficient public services. Hence the principal task of the state is to guarantee this security, so that those who work and produce can enjoy the fruits of their labors and thus feel encouraged to work efficiently and honestly. . . . Another task of the state is that of overseeing and directing the exercise of human rights in the economic sector. However, primary responsibility in this area belongs not to the state but to individuals and to the various groups and associations which make up society.”

Hmm. So one way of looking at this is that it is the state’s responsibility to make sure that welfare works correctly (ie, making sure no-one is cheating so that money is distributed fairly). This would mean it’s not really your problem. But having a look at the last 2 sentences there, says that if this is a matter of human rights, then responsibility does belong to individuals making up society (such as you).

Well, is it a human rights issue? Has anyone had their rights violated? These people are just cheating the state, not denying someone their rights. So I think that if you really didn’t want to report them, you woudln’t have a responsibility to do so - unless there’s something I missed (I’m no theologian or moral expert, I haven’t read much apart from bits of the catechism and the bible).

Having said that, I’m pretty sure that if you did want to report them, and stop them from cheating on the state, there would be nothing wrong with that. I think, speak or stay silent, from what I’ve read it appears to be your choice.


#7

Like everyone else, I would say report them, but then let it go. The government may investigate and discover something you do not know. Not everything that appears fraudulent actually is. Even if the government doesn’t investigate, it is not your job to police these people. Report it once and leave it alone. You have done your duty and can live your own life happily.


#8

My sister does the same thing… she got food stamps because she needed help when she quit/got fired from her job and it took her more than two months to find another job. I had no problem that she asked for help because she does have two kids… my problem was that she didn’t claim her boyfriend’s income (he lives with her and is the father of her second child). She got $211/month for groceries and you know… she COMPLAINED about it! Burned my hide! I’ve got a family of five an can do alot with $211/month. Anyway… the minute she got a job, I lit into her about her obligation to tell the services that gave her the food stamps… she said she would… then the next month she said she used the food stamps for such and such, so I lit into her again. Then this month, she paid for certain things that she’s giving as Christmas gifts with her food stamps… so I lit into her again and at this point she goes “this is the last month I’ll get them because I’m up for review and they won’t give them to me because of the job.” I wanted to scream. It wasn’t fair… was I jealous that she milked the system? In a sense, yes because my husband is military and he pays into the very system she takes advantage of and my husband and I struggle to make ends meet. I’ve been doing a financial dance since we moved to one income.

Moral of the story… pray about it and see if what’s motivating your questioning is jealousy and resentment over the fact that you’re being honest and they aren’t. If these are people you don’t know, there might be an underlying situation that you’re not aware of… but if you do in fact know these people, have you talked to them about how it’s not right? I personally might have a hard time reporting them if children were involved because I’d feel like I"m taking from the children for the sins of the parent. (I know… .it doesn’t negate the fact that the chidren are now being taught that it’s ok to do that)

Anyway… pray about it. That’s about all I can offer. I’m sorry. :frowning:


#9

[quote=Karin]REPORT THEM!

They are stealing…I mean what possible reasons can you have for NOT REPORTING them- do you condone STEALING?

They are stealing from people that ACTUALLY need that money they are stealing from the Goverment (well that is not always bad:rolleyes: ) and they are stealing from all of us tax payers!
Isnt one of God’s Commandments…**THOU SHALT NOT STEAL!!! **

[/quote]

Does the larger font actually mean you are yelling! I hope not.

shae


#10

I really appreciate all opinions, and will examine my motives. Yes one of them is my sister, so I may have trouble reporting her. She is no way going hungry, she has a lot of material needs, not.

Perhaps, I am jealous, cause we are fair and just, and pay huge taxes, and these people need their weekly luxuries. I am not speaking for all. Just a minority.

I only want to do the right way morally, not for my motives.

Shae


#11

[quote=Shae]Another case I know about, he is on sickness pension as well, paid by government, cause of bad back, yet he is slashing weeds and cleaning bricks, this work requires a healthy back.
The welfare system is a fair system for all, and not to be abused, and it is abused for sure.
I am having trouble reporting them, even though they are wrongfully collecting welfare. I am questioning my motives for doing so. I just want to make sure I am going to do the right thing. Can someone help me out here, I need a bit of backing support. I am finding all excuses for not going ahead in reporting them.

shae
[/quote]

I don’t know what your obligations are.

But as for the man with the bad back, do you know what his diagnosis is? Is his weed slashing and brick cleaning a daily activity? Does he “pay” for these activities the next few days with increased pain levels and decreased mobility? Just because he is doing these activities doesn’t mean he lied about his back. In order to qualify for sickness pension or disability, he would have had to see several doctors, who would have taken x-rays and other diagnostic tests, etc. Sure, people can fool physicians, but I’d be very careful before accusing him of fraud.


#12

[quote=Shae]So, exactly what are my obligations. I know people who are cheating the welfare system. One family is selling in black market tobacco, the husband claims sickness benefits, the wife works parttime and collects single parent pension.
Another case I know about, he is on sickness pension as well, paid by government, cause of bad back, yet he is slashing weeds and cleaning bricks, this work requires a healthy back.
The welfare system is a fair system for all, and not to be abused, and it is abused for sure.
I am having trouble reporting them, even though they are wrongfully collecting welfare. I am questioning my motives for doing so. I just want to make sure I am going to do the right thing. Can someone help me out here, I need a bit of backing support. I am finding all excuses for not going ahead in reporting them.

shae
[/quote]

I would report them for sure but…I beg to differ with you about it being a fair system! When I got laid off and my husband took off I had a heck of a time getting help from them. I got selected to be put on a “reform” program which I found out was so unfairly administered it was unreal. It seems that my state mandated that all non-african americans be put on this program. It included restrictions like mandating that I had 1 month to find a job working 35 hours a week or more or lose my benefits. I was trying to get into an educational program and found out that was administered unfairly as well. It seems that if you had dropped out of HS you could go right into the program, get a GED and continue onto college and your benefits were protected. But, if you had graduated and had some college already, you had too many job skills to qualify. I had less than 2 yrs left to my degree with a 4.0 average and they wouldn’t let me in. I pointed out to them that I had a proven success rate and as such, if they let me finish I would be able to attain a higher paying job, and thus pay more taxes so they would benefit as much as I would…no go! Anyway, I absolutely hate the system because it encourages people to lie just to get by. But at the same time, I can’t stand people that abuse the system just for greed either. Like I said…make sure you have your facts straight and report them!


#13

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