Justifying same sex attraction


#1

How do you respond to the argument that the biblical argument against gay activities can be ignored just like deuteronomy chapter 22 is largely ignored?


#2

Umm what about the New Testament, especially the Pauline epistles? What about the constant affirmation throughout Scripture that God made them male and female to be together? What about the universal witness of the Church for two thousand years? What about the natural moral law, which Scripture also affirms?

In truth, if people want to try to weasel their way out of this kind of witness (and I use the word advisedly, since I can't see what else is going on here), they are either (i) lying to themselves (deliberately or unconsciously) or (ii) somehow blinded to the truth, so that we can just reflect on Jesus' words:

"To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables; so that they may indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand; lest they should turn again, and be forgiven."

(Mark 4:11b-12)


#3

But the NT never disavowed deut 22. So, over time people figured out the error on their own and just ignored it. Theremare partsmofmthe pauline epistles that are largely ignored now. And as this developed, im sure there were fundamentlists around who claimedm"Truth" as they oppressed their wives. Is it impossible that the same thing is beginning to happen as it relates to gay people?


#4

[quote="RKO, post:3, topic:323679"]
But the NT never disavowed deut 22. So, over time people figured out the error on their own and just ignored it. Theremare partsmofmthe pauline epistles that are largely ignored now. And as this developed, im sure there were fundamentlists around who claimedm"Truth" as they oppressed their wives. Is it impossible that the same thing is beginning to happen as it relates to gay people?

[/quote]

Yes it is impossible, because - since that's not what happened with the rest of scripture - there is no way for the "same thing" to happen to the very clear teaching on homosexual activity.

Scripture is the word of God. It is possible for it to be misunderstood (by individuals or even societies, though it can't be wrongly interpreted by the Church), or misapplied, but it can't just be wrong. Parts of the old testament ceremonial law no longer apply, true. And even some of what is mentioned in the new testament is discipline not doctrine (and clearly so), and not meant be eternal. But the moral law is unchanging.


#5

Jesus Christ , the same yesterday, today and forever. That which He finds abominable yesterday is still so today. I say this with all compassion as one who has struggled with serious sexual issues. THe path to freedon is NEVER to justify the sin. Complete COnfession, true repentance, (contrition, penance, however you will), faith, prayer, and charity are all needed if victory is to be found.


#6

[quote="RKO, post:1, topic:323679"]
How do you respond to the argument that the biblical argument against gay activities can be ignored just like deuteronomy chapter 22 is largely ignored?

[/quote]

I assume that you are referring to this passage:

"If, however, the charge [of adultery] is true and no proof of the young woman’s virginity can be found, 21 she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. You must purge the evil from among you."
- Deuteronomy 22:20-21

Before commenting on this passage, we must also take into account the word's of our Blessed Lord (you can't take one passage from the bible and ignore the other relevant passages):

"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, 'Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?'... [he said to them] 'Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.' 8 ... 'Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?' 11 'No one, sir,” she said. 'Then neither do I condemn you,' Jesus declared. 'Go now and leave your life of sin.'"
- John 8:3-11

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+8&version=NIV

Keep in mind that neither of these passages reduce the wrongness of adultery. Both passages uphold the truth that adultery is a serious sin. What these passages do address, however, is what kind of punishment should be administered for committing adultery. The immorality of adultery is an unchangeable teaching (it is always wrong), but the punishments for such acts are not written in stone and our Blessed Lord demonstrates that we should be compassionate and forgiving towards those who commit these acts.

It's the same with homosexual activity. The immorality of homosexual activity is clearly stated in numerous passages within scripture and is upheld by infallible Church teaching. That said, the punishment for said activities are not written in stone and we can (and should) be merciful to those who engage in such activities (ie. hate the sin, love the sinner).


#7

There is much in Deuteronomy 22 that was disciplinary in nature. Since the Church has the power to bind and loose, she can add, modify or delete anything that is not in the Divine Law or Moral Law.

Now this thread is slightly confusing because you have given it the title, "justifying same sex attraction" but your question is about "homosexual activity". These are two different things. The Church is crystal clear that those who experience homosexual tendences are to be treated as our equals. It is only the activity, the choice, the lifestyle, that is to be condemned as gravely sinful. And it is the activity that is contrary to Divine Law.

The Church has no power to change or dispense a law against homosexual relations. That law is written on our hearts by God, who created us male and female, and gave us the gift of sexual complementarity so that we could "be fruitful and multiply".


#8

Semen is an immunosuppressant. It's part of God's design to disable the woman's local immune system to allow sperm to fertilize the ovum. Depositing semen in the rectum is very dangerous because it disables the body's immune system in the worst place possible (i.e., the location of dangerous bacteria)...abomination indeed.

So why are governments encouraging this? It's part of the "War on Population", the title of a book I read years ago by Economics Professor Jacqueline Kasun and published by Ignatius Press. Under the guise of humanitarian concern against a backward church, they promote this either out of ignorance or knowing that it causes early death...wolves in sheep's clothing. The motive is population control. They also promote condoms for Africans for the same reason, Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood, was a population controller. The Nazis were big fans and implemented many of her policy suggestions...forced sterilizations of the mentally and physically handicapped, euthanasia of the elderly and infirm, abortion for non-Germans all were deemed to improve the quality of life for the master race. These crimes were part of their war crimes record.


#9

[quote="MidnightSun12, post:6, topic:323679"]
I assume that you are referring to this passage:

"If, however, the charge [of adultery] is true and no proof of the young woman’s virginity can be found, 21 she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. You must purge the evil from among you."
- Deuteronomy 22:20-21

Before commenting on this passage, we must also take into account the word's of our Blessed Lord (you can't take one passage from the bible and ignore the other relevant passages):

"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, 'Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?'... [he said to them] 'Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.' 8 ... 'Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?' 11 'No one, sir,” she said. 'Then neither do I condemn you,' Jesus declared. 'Go now and leave your life of sin.'"
- John 8:3-11

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+8&version=NIV

Keep in mind that neither of these passages reduce the wrongness of adultery. Both passages uphold the truth that adultery is a serious sin. What these passages do address, however, is what kind of punishment should be administered for committing adultery. The immorality of adultery is an unchangeable teaching (it is always wrong), but the punishments for such acts are not written in stone and our Blessed Lord demonstrates that we should be compassionate and forgiving towards those who commit these acts.

It's the same with homosexual activity. The immorality of homosexual activity is clearly stated in numerous passages within scripture and is upheld by infallible Church teaching. That said, the punishment for said activities are not written in stone and we can (and should) be merciful to those who engage in such activities (ie. hate the sin, love the sinner).

[/quote]

Excellent post.


#10

[quote="RKO, post:1, topic:323679"]
How do you respond to the argument that the biblical argument against gay activities can be ignored just like deuteronomy chapter 22 is largely ignored?

[/quote]

One of the 10 Commandments says honor your mother AND father.

Same-sex adoptive parenting renders this family life command obsolete.

And yet, in their desire to gain social and moral validity, homosexual activists demand equal rights to ''marry'' and adopt children.

Another of the 10 Commandments is equally about protecting the family - Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery. Adulterers - especially bisexual adulterers, could just as easily argue that this commandment vilifies and discriminates against them. Why should the definition of marriage insist on monogamy thus putting a social stigma on a man who visits gay bars when his wife and children arent around?

This whole SSM saga is a joke! It has nothing to do with Equal Love and hearts and flowers and undying commitment.

It's not about matrimonial bliss for people who were "born that way'' and all they want to do is have "the right" to get married and ''have kids'' just like everyone else. This post-modern push to change the definitions of mother, father, husband, wife, man, woman, parent, child is all about the desire for social acceptance of the lifestyle of a given minority.

...I live this way, I want to live this way, I enjoy living this way, I'm not going to change the way I live...AND on top of that, I want everyone else to publically and officially approve the way I live my life. **Because it's not enough for ME personally to think my personal lifestyle is normal - I want YOU to affirm it as well. **


#11

Well, it is understandable that such should be, it is NOT justifiable that people ACT on same sex attractions.


#12

[quote="miguel, post:9, topic:323679"]
Excellent post.

[/quote]

Thanks! :tiphat:

Maybe this cancels out one of the many not-so-excellent posts I've made!


#13

[quote="MidnightSun12, post:6, topic:323679"]
I assume that you are referring to this passage:

"If, however, the charge [of adultery] is true and no proof of the young woman’s virginity can be found, 21 she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. You must purge the evil from among you."
- Deuteronomy 22:20-21

Before commenting on this passage, we must also take into account the word's of our Blessed Lord (you can't take one passage from the bible and ignore the other relevant passages):

"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, 'Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?'... [he said to them] 'Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.' 8 ... 'Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?' 11 'No one, sir,” she said. 'Then neither do I condemn you,' Jesus declared. 'Go now and leave your life of sin.'"
- John 8:3-11

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+8&version=NIV

Keep in mind that neither of these passages reduce the wrongness of adultery. Both passages uphold the truth that adultery is a serious sin. What these passages do address, however, is what kind of punishment should be administered for committing adultery. The immorality of adultery is an unchangeable teaching (it is always wrong), but the punishments for such acts are not written in stone and our Blessed Lord demonstrates that we should be compassionate and forgiving towards those who commit these acts.

It's the same with homosexual activity. The immorality of homosexual activity is clearly stated in numerous passages within scripture and is upheld by infallible Church teaching. That said, the punishment for said activities are not written in stone and we can (and should) be merciful to those who engage in such activities (ie. hate the sin, love the sinner).

[/quote]

:clapping: Yes, that was a very nice response.

[quote="MidnightSun12, post:12, topic:323679"]
Thanks! :tiphat:

Maybe this cancels out one of the many not-so-excellent posts I've made!

[/quote]

Oh, it's so good to know that one really well written and well thought out post can possibly cancel out some of our not-so-excellent posts!
:rotfl:


#14

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