JW returns...

The same JW lady I posted about returned today. She brought another lady with her. I was busy taking down my Christmas things when they arrived. I invited them in. She started with a Scripture reading after we talked a bit, then she started to hand me the Watch Tower and Awake Mag.

I smiled and said, “Oh wait a minute I have something for you too.” I went and got a Catholic Mag. and also someone last night posted about the King James Bible from back in 1611, so I went to the links, printed off the information, knowing I’d give it to my JW lady. (you know how the king james Had the “seven missing book” in it back then.)

I handed the Catholic Mag to her friend as she had her hands full with her Bible open, and her JW mags in her other hand. I was ready for her to give it back to me, I just knew that was comming, I would have been shocked, if she would have kept it.

She looked at the cover and polietly said, “Oh I don’t want to take your only mag.” I smiled and said, “It’s not the only one I have, I have 20 more, please feel free to take it.” Meanwhile she had handed me her JW mags. Then she says, “No really I can’t, I Wouldn’t read it anyway, because I KNOW the Truth.”

I looked at her and said, “Oh I’m not trying to convience you to become Catholic, I just thought you’d enjoy learning how we see things, so you could understand me more.” She then handed me back the Catholic Mag, and again says, "NO, I wouldn’t read it anyway. I KNOW the Truth. " She was a little huffy about it.

I then shocked her and handed her back her mags and said, “I thought we were just exchanging mags and trying to learn about each other, but since you feel that way, then here I won’t take these ones either. If that’s how you feel, that you’re not wanting to know what I beleive to understand me, then I don’t need these, because I LIVE the Truth through the Catholic Church.”

Her mought dropped open and then I said, “I’m sorry but I have to get back to work now, you be safe out on the roads.” and I walked them to the door and opened it. And I told them both very nicely to have a nice day, and I shut the door behind them.

My thoughts are these right or wrong but they are still my thoughts. For months I’ve tried being nice to this lady, yes I’ve even taken her mags. So today, I thought since I had a Catholic Mag, I had ordered it and I had ordered 20 copies so I could give them away. I knew before I even gave it to her that she wouldn’t accept it, but I had hopes that since I had been taking hers she would have taken mind. Even if she had no intention of reading it…by all means she should have taken it…goodness how do the JW’s hope to win anyone over, if they themselves can’t/won’t learn how others believe?

I mean after all if two groups are against each other, the wisest thing to do is find out what the other side thinks or feels, then you know how to approach them.

You can get more with understand and a good listening ear, (especially if the other party respects you as a person and is polite and listens) than you can by being stuborn and refusing to even hear what the persons thoughts are that You knocked on My Door. I ddint seek her out.

If she comes again, and I’m sure without a doubt she will, I’m just going to flat out tell her that I’m not intrested in what the Watch Tower has to say and that I really would rather she not come back.

Thank you for letting me ramble…:eek:

It’s very frustrating when they do that, isn’t it? You’re expected to be nice to them and listen to them, and Heaven forbid you might actually believe that they’re sincere. And then when you ask them to reciprocate or to learn something about your beliefs so that you have a foundation of both views, and you’re learning about them, they reject it. You did well though :slight_smile:

Here’s something you can print out for here from CARM, which is an anti Catholic group, but the list is good. It’s a list of all their(JW) false prophecies.

IDENTIFYING THE “PROPHET” – “So does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come? These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet?..This “prophet” was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah’s Christian Witnesses…Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a ‘prophet’ of God. It is another thing to prove it,” (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1972, p. 197). (See Deut. 18:21.)

1897 “Our Lord, the appointed King, is now present, since October 1874,” (Studies in the Scriptures, vol. 4, p. 621).
1899 “…the ‘battle of the great day of God Almighty’ (Revelation 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth’s present rulership, is already commenced,” (The Time Is at Hand, 1908 edition, p. 101).
1916 “The Bible chronology herein presented shows that the six great 1000 year days beginning with Adam are ended, and that the great 7th Day, the 1000 years of Christ’s Reign, began in 1873,” (The Time Is at Hand, forward, p. ii).
1918 “Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection,” (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, p. 89).
1922 “The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures than 1914,” (Watchtower, Sept. 1, 1922, p. 262).
1923 “Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge,” (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1923, p. 106).
1925 “The year 1925 is here. With great expectation Christians have looked forward to this year. Many have confidently expected that all members of the body of Christ will be changed to heavenly glory during this year. This may be accomplished. It may not be. In his own due time God will accomplish his purposes concerning his people. Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year,” (Watchtower, Jan. 1, 1925, p. 3).
1925 “It is to be expected that Satan will try to inject into the minds of the consecrated, the thought that 1925 should see an end to the work,” (Watchtower, Sept., 1925, p. 262).
1926 “Some anticipated that the work would end in 1925, but the Lord did not state so. The difficulty was that the friends inflated their imaginations beyond reason; and that when their imaginations burst asunder, they were inclined to throw away everything,” (Watchtower, p. 232).
1931 “There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah’s faithful ones on earth concerning the years 1917, 1918, and 1925, which disappointment lasted for a time…and they also learned to quit fixing dates,” (Vindication, p. 338).
1941 “Receiving the gift, the marching children clasped it to them, not a toy or plaything for idle pleasure, but the Lord’s provided instrument for most effective work in the remaining months before Armageddon,” (Watchtower, Sept. 15, 1941, p. 288).
1968 “True, there have been those in times past who predicted an ‘end to the world’, even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The ‘end’ did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing?.. Missing from such people were God’s truths and evidence that he was using and guiding them,” (Awake, Oct. 8, 1968).
1968 “Why are you looking forward to 1975?” (Watchtower, Aug. 15, 1968, p. 494).

carm.org/jehovahs-witnesses-and-their-many-false-prophecies

If you’ve already received two visits from this lady and both times she was met with good Catholic apologetics from you, as you describe, and she behaved this way about your literature, I find it hard to believe she’ll come back.

When I’m outside mowing the lawn or doing yardwork, I HOPE they’ll come over to my yard and start up with me. I say “bring it, baby!” in my head and just hope they’ll come…but it’s funny, they go to every house but mine. I think I give off a Catholic pheramone or something that they can just smell that I’m well-catechized or something. Hard telling. The Mormons and J-Dubs stay away from my manor! :stuck_out_tongue:

I wouldn’t accept that woman’s literature to begin with and I wouldn’t let her do her whole shpeeal. I’d cut her off respectfully right off the bat and just say nicely, “I’m a member of the One True Holy Catholic and Apostolic Faith of 2,000 years founded on the Rock of Peter by Christ Himself. I am well-catechized, know Christ deeply in the Eucharist and the seven sacraments, and my family and I are thoroughly Catholic. God bless you.” smile and get back to pruning the shrubs! If Mormons arrive at my place, they’re in for it because I know all about the Book of Mormon, Lamanites and the whole nine yards…I’m a Joseph Smith expert and they’re going to come up empty! lol

Don’t you wish every Catholic watched EWTN, read the catechism, listened to Catholic Answers, read ECF’s and history and could give all these folks heck?:nerd::nerd::hypno:

You are free and logical.

This JW lady is neither free nor able to be logical. She has be brainwashed through a very systematic method. She has been trained to only think what the WatchTower allows her to think…through the Awake, WatchTower magazines and other WatchTower publications they are told what they can think and only what they can think in every aspect of their lives. The control of information helps maintain the WatchTower’s control over all JW’s thoughts and actions.

And that to her having another JW with her…to observe and report should there be any non WatchTower approved actions or speach made by her. If she’d accepted the magazine from you, she would have been reported and depending on the Elder’s judgement of her activity, she would likely be disfellowshipped meaning losing her family, all contact from her friends, and her entire support network…if she’s married with kids, her family would be forbidden from communication with her and would not eat at the same table with her.

She desperately is in need of your prayers…and she needs to know that you will be her friend and help her re-establish a life and network she she leave the WatchTower.

Oh snap.

This lady has stopped by for months, there is no doubt to her when she walks into my house that I’m Catholic, for one I’ve told her, second when you walk into my house first things you see are a Crucifix, Big Wall Roseary, Candles with the Scared Heart, Guardian Angles, St. Jude, ect. Pictures of Jesus everywhere, Pictures of Mary, Then if that’s not enough in my bookcase, it’s full of Catholic Books. It would be hard to miss this household is Catholic.

I know her (all JW’s) goal is to bring anyone from any other Religion over to being a JW. I do pray for her and all JW’s.

Yes, I know they are Very Much controlled. I pray that God will show Mercy on them and even though I know she has good intentions…I also know the road to Heaven is narrow and the path to Hell is filled with “Good Intention…and people not seeking out full Truths.”

Ok, I fully admit, I’m at my Witts end with this lady. I’ve tried being a good Christian, being patient, respectful, ect. But yesterday, I just couldn’t “play the patients game” anymore and I just had to say what I did, although I did say it with Respect…but Firmly. (Rember this has been going on for Months…and a few years ago she was here with different JW lady, so it’s not like I’m “New” to her.)

If she does come back, which I know she will, I’m just going to tell her, “I’m **not interested **in the Watch Tower or the JW Religion and don’t come back here anymore unless you want to have a Catholic Bible Study Only. I will Pray for you.” and then I’m going to shut the door. I’m not going to even give her a chance to respond. (which is going to be hard for me, because I’m really a nice polite person, but I’m done with this lady. I’ll offer prayers up on her behalf and I’ll let God take care of it from there. I just can’t do it anymore.)

I have met and talked to several JWs over the years, all have been polite, except this lady. So I’m done with being patient and nice.

I’ve had conversations with those folks also. My main question/statement to them is: “So let me get this right, God would allow a lie (Catholic teaching) to exist for some 1800 years until your guy came along with the truth?” “I’m sorry sir/madam, I just cannot believe that!” Hey, they can believe what they want to. I share my faith with them, after that the ball is in their court. As for patience, I know you tried, but they are a bunch of zealous folks. I go on offense as soon as I realize they are JW. Lots of them were once Catholics and that is the sorry part. (for them).

Oh I forgot to mention we talked about the King James Bible, as I handed her the computer print out of the information on it, that the King James Bible back in 1611 did have the books of the Apocrypha in 1611. I also asked her if she knew that the New Testament did have reference’s to the Apocrypha. She said, no it doesn’t, as I handed her the papers, I said, well here’s the proof, you may look it up for yourself.

She did take the computer print outs that I gave her, but not before she asked “What website it came from.” When I showed her that it wasn’t from a “Catholic Website” she was then willing to take it. The other lady was interested in it too. Then after that was when the Catholic Mag was given back.

Hmmm…now that I think of it, maybe if/when she does come back I should be patient one more time…because I’d like to know, what she thought about the computer print outs.

I’m so glad that I can vent my stress on here and get advice before…she shows up again. I pray the Lord will give me more patience.

I think you were very brave and charitable in your response to this woman who really seems to be harassing you. The fact that she took the materials you gave her may be just the seed the Holy Spirit needs to bring her to the Catholic faith. Isn’t it interesting that she expects you to take the material that she gives you, but refuses to take the material that you give her? What hypocrisy! I’ll be praying for you, and for this woman too.

"So let me get this right, God would allow a lie (Catholic teaching) to exist for some 1800 years until your guy came along with the truth I mentioned something like this to her, but only I said, "over 2,000 years and it wasn’t until Russle started their Religion before they existed.

She informed me that No, their Religon was one of the First Wittness back when Jesus walked the earth. Now this is the Very first time I had heard that from a JW. She said it wasn’t Russle who started them, that their Religioin was one of the First Wittness to Jesus. I guess this is a new teaching by the Watch Tower now. As over the years I’ve never heard this from Any JW.

What really baffels me is this. Since they believe Hell is the Grave Only and that the only thing that happens on Judgement Day, is if we are going to be in Heaven or on the Paridise Earth, (as they put it) and if we don’t get to be in Heaven or on the Paridise Earth, then we would “Cease” to exist.

With a Church teaching/belief like that, truely in todays age, if there is no “Fear” of Forever Torement or being in Hell (as we believe). Then why, since all I (or anyone) would know is “this life now”, wouldn’t I say to myself, ok so I miss out of Heaven, well I can “live it up now” so to speak, so why not.

Now of course those of us who are Christian don’t feel that way, but what about the people who aren’t or don’t know God? They, might think this to themselves, after all in their “eyes” since they don’t have that relationship with Jesus, God, to them, if the JW teaching is presented to them, really what do they have to loose, if we look at it from their point, of not knowing God or Jesus yet. Hopefully I have muddled through this ok to explain what I’m trying to say.

hi. if you actually got them to keep the computer printout, then that is a big step in itself. its something like that, that could get a person thinking, and start digging deeper. yeah… being patient one more time may be in order;) keep up the good work. God bless you and yours.

Rather than refer to these 7 books as "apocrypha" (writings or statements of questionable authorship or authenticity), I prefer to call them the “deutero-canonicals”, which suggests that their authorship is *not *questionable.

The JW woman could not have accepted your Catholic literature. Because she believes the Catholic Church is an instument of Satan, reading any literature authorized by the Catholic Church is akin to reading a letter from Satan himself. The JWs are taught to ask themselves, why would I want to listen to anything Satan wants to tell me?

It’s actually brilliant on the part of the Watchtower Society… their members remain in line because they are NEVER allowed to study anyting other than their own literature. If you were to ask the JW how she expects to understand anyone else’s faith (in order to witness to them) she’d camly tell you that the Watchtower Society teaches them what other faiths believe. :rolleyes:

I hope your right, I pray it was the Seed, even if not to the Catholic Faith, at least to a faith that teaches Truth about the Trinity ect. There are a lot of our Prodesent bothers and sisters Churchs who have a lot of the same beliefs that Catholics have and teach. This at least would be a Great Step for her.

I don’t believe for right now, as much “anger/hatered” (and she does have) that she has for the Catholic Church, that she’d no way turn to her for the moment…but all in Gods time, not ours and one step at a time…first to get her to “see the light” that the Watch Tower doen’t teach Truth, but only God can touch her heart on that one. She just needs to listen to Him.

I think we have to be careful in dealing with the “J-dubs” as their tactics are very underhanded and sneaky. I had an experience where they approached my wife under false pretences and when she let them in for coffee they were perfectly normal. Then as if a switch turned, they completely changed their demeanor and attitude and started their JW shtick which took my wife completely off guard. Wanting to capture my wife, they kept coming back until I told them not to.

While I can appreciate the desire to make a difference with convincing a JW of the error of their religion, I think its important to operate from the assumption that they will engage in underhanded tactics as indeed they think they’re fighting the religion of the devil (non-JW’s). But they are human. Its possible that something we say might cause one of them to question their beliefs. We must pray for them as well.

Ishii

Hm, but Hell (the hellfire and brimstone kind) is mentioned in the new testament 24 times. I wonder how they get around it.

I can answer this one as I had studied with a JW friend of mine for 7 years. They explain that hell is really (the hellfire and brimstone kind) is in reference to I believe it’s Genival, (if I’m saying that right) in the Bible where people were tortured and thrown into the fire in the Old Test. They say that’s what the New Testament is refering back to. Geeze I wish I could remember where that was in the Old Test. but anyway that’s how they explain the ALL the New Testament verses about Hell. The New Testament really doesn’t mean what it says, its really refering back to the Old Testament.

Nope I couldn’t swallow that one…just one more place where her and I disagreed, but a friendly disagree. At least she was a JW, my friend from years ago, that was willing, even though she didn’t accept it, to look at and study with me Catholic Material and in return I looked at theirs. It was a two way Bible Study. She has now moved and we’ve lost contact…I wonder if any of our Bible Studies from years ago planted a seed? But if nothing else I did learn a lot about JWs and their beliefs.

I also had an experience with a JW friend, i actually attended their district convention last year as my friend invited me.

But when i turn the tables, and invited [them] to mass, [they] denied it since for [them], the priests leaves us “garbage” of worship and therefore dont want to be part of it. tsk2

Do pray for these close-minded souls.

Does the name Jim Jones ring a bell to anyone? He also was a false leader, who lead his “flock” right into committing susicide. If I remember right it was hundreds of people that followed him and did this.

I compare The Watch Tower to Jim Jones…He mislead and brainwashed his “flock”. The Watch Tower Society, (JW’s) are doing the same thing. The Watch Tower Society is playing/falsely with each of these JW’s life’s…

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