Killing of women and Children in the Old Test?


#1

How do we as Catholics justify the killing of women and children in the old testament? This issue is one I often struggle with.

I know this is the old testament, but it’s still our God whom I love very much. Was this for the greater good?

Thanks in advance for any insight.


#2

I never could figure that one out myself :confused:

And not just women and children…men too

Some Gnostics went so far as to say that it was a separate God altogether. :eek:

I’ve heard a couple of different explanations
None of which really gave me an “A Ha!” moment


#3

Greg Koukl has a good article on this subject here.


#4

[quote=ephphatha]Greg Koukl has a good article on this subject here.
[/quote]

Hi ephphatha,
I read the article but I am still left with my own musings.
Time is a very important element.
When someone is killed by God, it is done in His time, with His wisdom, knowing where that person is in Christ and the repercussions of that death on the surrounding people who in His wisdom will learn from it.
If we kill someone, by design or from foolishness it is done without wisdom, without really knowing where that person is in this moment in Christ and what effect this killing will have on the surrounding people and on relatives friends etc.
Of course God has given keys so this allows for society law. Without the keys society couldnt operate. Society law even excuses people in war where the war is conducted by the laws of the land.
Every person must die to earth. Ok Moses and Elijah and Enoch (and Mary if your Roman Catholic) God is extremely hurt when someone dies before their time. Sin to the 4th generation, have a look at the effects of some drugs on peoples lives. Is it fair that a baby die from aids. Well, God has given us ever thing in Christ, victory is complete, but if we choose to disobey, and we know the truth which is in our hearts then the path we choose must be played out. If we said surely babies shouldnt die from aids then you have to ask at what age can they die of aids and if they cant die from aids why can they die from malaria. This arguement has everyone dying on their 70th birthday at 12 noon.
His way is the best. Our way is to obey.
walk in love
edwinG


#5

Racier than a daytime talk show,the bible packs insest,castration,beheading,cross dressing,polygamy,sex slaves,seduction,baby murder and thats just the first couple of hundred pages.

Smack in duteronomy (25:11-25.)

We find that a wife who helps her husband in a fight by grabbing his testicles shall have her right hand cut off.

In the book of Samuel (!:16-20.)

We find the son of King David having sex with 10 of dear old dad’s concubines on a roof top for all of Isrial to see.

(The old testament of the bible.)

A book of perversion and sin equal to any and promoted as the word of God by a perversed people who have ordained themselves as God’s chosen people.


#6

edwin, the only problem I see with your scenario is that if true, it would seem to follow that we would have the right to kill people if only we had more knowledge, and I’m not sure that’s true. It doesn’t seem to me that knowledge has anything to do with why we’re allowed or forbidden to kill people.


#7

Any more thoughts?


#8

Which issues of killing are you looking at. Those ordered by God for war or according to the law?

It is a big question. I have looked into it myself, and while it is a lot of reading, you will be amazed at how humane things were actually done and why they were done! In fact that military tactics of the Israelites are astounding and their manner were entirely ethical putting to shame the ‘just wars’ being carried out today.

One thing you must understand is that the times back in the Old Testament Period were nothing like the comfortable lives we enjoy today. In fact, killing people was actually more merciful than leaving them alive in certain conditions.

Pay no attention to people like Perry5, once you discover how just and merciful God is, arguments like that will only display the utter ignorance people have about the Old Testament and the Christian God.

Do you have any particular examples of events that you wish to learn about? You can find the answer, but only if you’re willing to invest some lengthy time reading, trust me, it WILL be well worth it. I will recommend these articles to you:

The Bible’s Command against Killing:
tektonics.org/lp/nokilling.html

The annihiliation of the Canaanites:
christian-thinktank.com/qamorite.html

The killing of the Amelkite Children:
christian-thinktank.com/rbutcher1.html

God unfair to Women?
Old Testament Laws pertaining to Virginity and Rape:
christian-thinktank.com/virginity.html

What about God’s cruelty against the Medianites?
Where God commanded the Israelites to kill all the Midianite males and adult women, and keep the virgin women for themselves:
christian-thinktank.com/midian.html

Was God being evil when He killed the first-born of Egypt:
christian-thinktank.com/killheir.html

Women in the Heart of God
How women are treated as equal of men while still maintaining their roles, in fact women are even given preferential treatment by God, believe it or not:
christian-thinktank.com/fem02b.html


#9

It may be more expedient to view a similar thread:

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=11103


#10

[quote=cajun-catholic]How do we as Catholics justify the killing of women and children in the old testament? This issue is one I often struggle with.

I know this is the old testament, but it’s still our God whom I love very much. Was this for the greater good?

Thanks in advance for any insight.
[/quote]

In the period in question, what counted was not individual human rights and dignity - both of these are very late ideas - but the solidarity of the group.

Achan broke the ban on taking anything from Jericho - he and his whole family died (Joshua 7).

Saul was commanded to slaughter every single Amalekite (1 Samuel 15) - so it was a sin not to do so.

There is a further problem here: the notion of sin. We associate it with ethics: but it was not always so regarded: any offence against a deity, even when unintentional, and even when not concerned with ethics at all (as we might see matters) was a sin: even if the thing commanded was unethical. So when Saul failed to exterminate Amalek, that was a sin. Samuel did not praise for him for mercy to Agag king of Amalek, but killed Agag himself.

We are still a long way from Micah 6, with its:

Mic 6:6 "With what shall I come before the LORD, and bow myself before God on high? Shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves a year old?

Mic 6:7 Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, with ten thousands of rivers of oil? Shall I give my first-born for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?"

Mic 6:8 He has showed you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?" ##


#11

Mic 6:6 "With what shall I come before the LORD, and bow myself before God on high? Shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves a year old?

Mic 6:7   Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, with ten thousands of rivers of oil? Shall I give my first-born for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?"  

Mic 6:8   He has showed you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

closed #12

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