Kingdom of Heaven and the kingdom of God

What is the Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God and when did it begin? God Bless Jerry Kelso

The Kingdom of Heaven is the Kingdom of God… It is Jesus Christ.

It had been approching as the Word of God was being proclaimed by the holy prophets.
It arrived when the Word of God became flesh: Jesus

It spreads in the world as people are saved and are assimilated into the Body of Christ, Temple of the Holy Spirit, the Church of the living God, pillar and foundation of truth. It subsists in its fullness in the Catholic Church.

God bless

Abijah, in 2nd Chronicles, refers to the throne of David as the Kingdom of the Lord in reference to Jeroboam and the 10 tribes who rebelled.

Jesus restores and fulfills what this kingdom was meant to be in the Old Testament - a Light to the Nations.

Nablaise:1. The Kingdom of Heaven is not really the Kingdom of God. The kingdom of heaven is more physical whereas, the Kingdom of God is more spiritual.
2. The Kingdom of Heaven is not Jesus Christ. The kingdom of God is in connection with Jesus spiritually speaking…
3. It was near but was rejected so it was never established.
4. The Kingdom of heaven messge is basically to do with the millenial kingdom. I have to go for now and you can feel free to respond. I will make another reply to explain the subject. God bless! Jerry kelso

Where do you get this from? The “Kingdom of Heaven” was the term used so that Matthew wouldn’t be using the word “God” in front of his target audience - Jews and Jewish converts.

Not Worthy: Before I post what the perspective on the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God I will say that your idea that Mathew would,t be using the word God in front of jews and jewish converts makes no sense in the context of this subject for every jew knew what these kingdoms were about but, because of there dullness of hearing and their sinful hearts they would not understand the mysteries of the kingdom. God bless! Jerry Kelso

To everyone: 1. Luke 19:10; For the son of man is come to seek and save that whcih was lost. What 2 things were lost? The verses above talk about salvation and the verses below talks about the physical kingdom. These would be the Kingdom Of Heaven and the Kingdom Of God. The KOH is basically the physical kingdom and the KOG is basically the spiritual rule of God in our hearts;; (matthew 5:19-20).
2 .The KOH and the KOG are said to be interchangeable like in parallel passages such as Matthew 11:11 and Luke 7:28 and Matthew 13 and Mark 8 and Luke 8 and 13. These can be explained as the KOH is a lesser term than the KOG. This means that the KOH in its physical sense is this literal earthly sphere that is out of harmony with the Physical KOG which is the whole universe.
Daniel 7:27 mentions the Kingdom under the whole heaven.this is the everlasting Kingdom rule upon the earth with the Ancient of Days and the son of man;(Daniel 7:13 and 22. Luke 18:20-21; the KOG comes without observation and is in you.
3. The KOH actually started in the Garden of Eden because Adam and Eve had rule over everything and they hadn’t sinned yet.(Genesis 1:26). They sinned in chapter 3 and were judged and kicked out of the garden. So they lost the physical KOH and the spiritual KOG. God will not rule with man unless he has a holy heart; Hebrews bears this out; without holiness no man shall see the Lord.
4.Fast forward to Isaiah 9:6-7 about the messiah and the government upon his shoulder is about the the promise of the Davidic throne that the messiah would be the head of. This is the reason for the geneology of David in the Book of Matthew. The prophets all prophesied about the kingdom which the scripture records; the Law and the Prophets prophesied until John who was the forerunner of Christ who was the reality of the types.
5. The gospels record the proclamation of the kingdom, the proclamation of the king, the rejection of the king, and the rejection of the kingdom. This kingdom message was only to the jew,not the gentiles; (Matthew essence; this is a dispensational term that has to do with the millenial kingdom with the jew being the head of the nations. So Israel’s callinlg is earthly as far as the nation itself. The church has a heavenly calling in which, we are being trained now in the law of love and we will be a part of that earthly rule.
6. The jews were still under the age of the mosaic law and they were backslidden and needed to come back to God to receive their specific covenannt blessing. Instead, they received judgement as a nation for the salt had lost it’s savor and they were trodden down ever since. This is directly to the jewish nation under the Mosaic law who was backslidden and needed God and not directly to the church for the gates of hell shall never prevail against the church. Jesus teachings under law were do,do,do but his new message of the death,burial, and resurrection is what he did,did, did. It’s not about works of self effort and legalism which produced things of the flesh and made the law which was holy and good a yoke of bondage which the jews could not bear. Now there is no condemnation and greater power through the Holy Spirit and the finished work of Christ.
7. You can teach the gospels ethically but, if you teach them doctrinally in the wrong way to the church you teach them to backsllide or live defeated or cause them to have a more regimented works mentality that can become legalistic.
8. Before the Day of Pentecost the disciples asked about the kingdom and he said it wasn’t for them to know and even he didn’t know but his Father knew. Peter even referenced some of the signs in Joel’s prophecy and mentioned the restitution of all things after that.
9.Paul talks about day of the Lord and the son of perdition in the tribulation. It shows that the day of the Lord comes after the tribulation. In Revelation 19 shows Christ with his heavenly army coming to make war at the battle of Armageddon and in 21; he sets the kingdom up for this it the time Satan is bound for a thousand years and that is why John saw the thrones.
10. The purging of the jews is the reason for the tribulation the time of daniel’s 70th week and when they come back to God having the spiritual KOG in their heart like Matthew and Hebrews state then the physical KOH will be established and the tares and wheat will be separated some to destruction and others to life everlasting which Daniel declares.
The misunderstanding of the KOH and the KOG can cause the church to live defeated, cause the struggle with sin because of carnality and rob Israel of it’s covenant blessings and think that the church has replaced Israel. This is the basic message of the KOH and the KOG taught by Jesus. God Bless! Jerry Kelso


Not Worthy: I wanted to mention a few more things about the kingdoms.

  1. The physical KOH is not here because the king is not here. This will not happen til the 2nd advent.
  2. The tares and wheat will grow up together and the generation of the tribulation will be reaped. The church will not be a part of Israel’s earthly calling directly. Many disagree with this because they believe the church will go through the whole tribulation and bring the kingdom in. However, the kingdom is not a work of man. It is a making of God alone and he will establish it. To which the apostles agree. The gospel today is not the gospel of the kingdom in Matthew 24 in totality. it is a message of repentance and about the millenial kingdom Christ will establish and be the head over the nations.
    I must go but I will be back.

Jerry Kelso

But He left His prime minister in charge while He is away.

  1. The tares and wheat will grow up together and the generation of the tribulation will be reaped. The church will not be a part of Israel’s earthly calling directly. Many disagree with this because they believe the church will go through the whole tribulation and bring the kingdom in. However, the kingdom is not a work of man. It is a making of God alone and he will establish it. To which the apostles agree. The gospel today is not the gospel of the kingdom in Matthew 24 in totality. it is a message of repentance and about the millenial kingdom Christ will establish and be the head over the nations.
    I must go but I will be back.

Jerry Kelso

Sorry, but the Kingdom is here… at least partially. It will only FULLY be here during the 2nd Coming.

But until the King returns, there is a regent. We lovingly call him Benedict XVI :wink:

No, it has already been established. It’s just not fully united. The tares and the wheat are growing up together, in the Church. Sadly, there are far too many tares… but we can only pray for, and work towards, their conversions!

“In totality” is the key phrase. The Kingdom is here, its just not complete until the King returns in Glory.

NotWorthy: Thank you for your response.

  1. The KOH reign is not here for the Son of man and the Ancient of Days is not here and Israel is not the head of the nations with the Davidic throne set up.Isaiah, Daniel, and Matthew and Luke bear this out plainly.The onlly thing that has been established about the KOH reign is the fact that it will happen.
    Technically, a kingdom with no King ceases to be a kingdom in that context which will be a theocracy. As far as a kingdom meaning a territry, nation, etc; this earthgly sphere has good and bad in it as Matthew 13 seems to bear out and this eartly sphere is in rebellion and out of harmony with the physical KOG which is the whole universe.
    So the KOH reign with the Son of Man, the Ancient of Days. And the Davidic throne as the head of the nations and the kingdoms of the world has not been established so it is not partially united at all. It is true the churches training today is rulership training for the heavenlies and in different capacities of the millenial kingdom. This woud be the only way to say the kingdom is partially united and even then it would be temporary if the church is raptured before the tribulation. The kingdom will never be complete until the kingdom comes. Read tje Lord’s Prayer…
    NotWorthy; I agree there are too many tares and this is why the correct teaching on the KOH and the KOG is important otherwise; we disciple people who are prone to live carnal, under the spirit of the law and teach them to be bacslidden. In this state how can we be consistently evangelical of winning souls for Christ and allow them to be unaware of satan’s devices and by this many are professors instead of died in the wool born again believers. Concerned, Jerry Kelso,

No, I’m sorry. The thing that has been established is the Church, which is part of the Kingdom.

But Christ IS the King and He has a kingdom. Until He returns to His Kingdom, the Prime Minister will be the visible head of the Kingdom. We all know and love him as “The Pope”.

The Kingdom will never be fully united until the Return of Christ. But the Kingdom is already present in the Church.

The correct teaching regarding the the KOH and KOG has been taught for 2000 years. This teaching has come from His Bride, the Church.

I googled “Kingdom of Heaven” vs. “Kingdom of God” and got a whole hodgepodge of explanations on the two - each coming from someone who is just as sure of what they are talking about as you seem to be. But they all disagree in varying degrees.

That’s why we are blessed to have the Church to teach us the proper meaning of these two phrases.

God Bless

Notworthy: I already explained what the KOH and the KOG was Physically and Spiritually according to the scriptures. Why do want to say anything contrary to the scripture because it is not hard to understand.
There is no scripture that says or implies there is a prime minister or pope that is the vusible head of the kingdom now. If you want to say or believe it is the catholic church that is your prerogative. H the truth is that the KOH has to do with the jewish nation at the head of the nations with Jesus and God the father present literally.
The KOH territory is this earthly sphere and in this sense you have a kingdom that is in rebellion. But the mysteries of the kingdom had to do with the jewish people not gentiles.
Matthew 13:51: says, Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto them, Yea lord! The disciples understood the kingdom but they didn’t understand the church of jews and gentiles in one body alike at that time. They didn’t even understand the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.
People say the pearl of great price is the church; how can this be if the disciples didn’t know wha the church was about? Peter didn’t understand the gentiles beng a part of the jewish church until the vision of the clean and unclean which was at least 8 years after the day of pentecost. Before this it was gentiles going into judaism.
When Jesus said upon this rock I will build my church it was a prophecy but peter didn’t understand what the church was at this time.
The KOH reign is not here for it can only be here when the jewish nation repents and comes back to God and he heals their land and establishes the new covenant in their hearts. This is when the tares and wheat will be separated. Read Zechariah, Hebrews, and Matthew.
No disrespect to your pope as a believer or a leader but the early church fathers didn’t say nothing about having apostolic succession from Peter in the same context as the catholic church speaks.
The KOH message was rejected by the nation of Israel and God wil not forget his people according to the Davidic covenant which will be at the second advent. The only role the catholic church has in this present rebellious kingdom is like the rest of the body of Christ. And when Christ establishes the kingdom it will be the jewish nation not the church who will be at the head of the nations. The church will have heavenly duties as well as positions of authority in the KOH rule at that time.
Show scripture for your position because your history is faulty.
God bless! Jerry Kelso

If you think there is no Scripture describing what Catholics call the Papacy, then that would make a wonderful new thread. Again, you are fighting against both Scripture and Tradition when you deny this. But that’s irrelevant to this thread.

I find it odd that you still insist on differentiating the two Kingdoms, for they are one. I refer you to Mark 4 and Matthew 13. In each Gospel, Jesus refers to the Kingdom (God in Mark, Heaven in Matthew) to a mustard seed.

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NotWorthy: I understand we are not talking directly about apostolic succession but it was releveant to the statement about the papacy being the regent. But that is ok we’ll start a new thread.
You are still misunderstanding and not putting the scriptures together so they can harmonize. I never said they didn’t have similarity’s for the KOH as a territory known as the earthly sphere is a part of the physical KOG which is the whole universe. In this respect they have almost eveything in common. The KOH reign which Daniel talks about and John and Jesus talks about and the children of Israel were talking about is not the same as the KOG mentioned in most of these passages such as Matthew 6:33 which were spiritual truth that they might repent and be saved to the jew because they were a backslidden people.
Jesus teachings to the jews under the 1st commission was the Mosaic law and must be understood in this context before you can understand what it means to a new covenant believer today. There are similarity’s in each covenant but it doesn’t mean we live according to those rules. If you want to live like the jew in that day you’ll have to keep 630 laws and more than 1000 other statutes and commandments and statutes and You’ll have specific blessing or cursings depending on how you keep or not keep the commandments.
You’ll have to sacrifice lambs, and other animals and go through a mediation of a high priest; etc. Do you get the picture? Then you definitely wouldn’t have catholic authority but would be a gentile that has been proselyted! God Bless Jerry Kelso

My friend, Jerry, it seems that you may still be mistaken. Even Abijah, of the line of David, understood that the Kingdom of God is of both earthly and heavenly substance.

But now, do you think you are a match for the kingdom of the LORD commanded by the sons of David, simply because you are a huge multitude and have with you the golden calves which Jeroboam made you for gods?

The Lord is with us always (Mt 28:20). His ongoing presence is ecclesial and eucharistic.

**For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." (Mt 18:20)

While they were eating, Jesus took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and giving it to his disciples said, “Take and eat; this is my body.” Then he took a cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you, for this is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins. (Mt 26:26-28)**

Daniel is fulfilled.

Exalted at the right hand of God, he received the promise of the holy Spirit from the Father and poured it forth, as you (both) see and hear. For David did not go up into heaven, but he himself said: ‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool.”’ Therefore let the whole house of Israel know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Messiah, this Jesus whom you crucified." (Acts 2:33-36)

**Do not be afraid any longer, little flock, for your Father is pleased to give you the kingdom. (Lk 12:32)

and I confer a kingdom on you, just as my Father has conferred one on me, that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom; and you will sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. (Lk 22:29)**

I am so glad that this thread was opened (even if it was simply an attempt to explain the Kingdom(s) to us instead of an honest question). For I always assumed that everybody knew the “Kingdom of God” and “Kingdom of Heaven” were interchangeable phrases.

As I mentioned earlier, I googled these two phrases and got a whole host of varying answers. Each site claims to have the clear teaching of the bible behind them (of course… :rolleyes:), but they came up with differing answers. However, I did find a Christian (non-Catholic) site that clearly shows how these phrases are interchangeable.

My question to other Catholics is, is this mainly a dispensationalist teaching, or is it simply like throwing spaghetti against the wall and seeing what sticks?

NotWorthy: I don’t disagree with this scripture but you don’t seem to understand how to put it together with the whole context of the subject.
The physical KOH was known by all the jewish nation. It was promised to the line of David through the Messiah; Isaiah 9:6-7. John was the forerunner, who introduced the KOH was at hand which was an old testament promise to King David. Jesus offered the KOH through his teachings to the jews; like the sermon on the mount, etc; and the KOH message was rejected. (Matthew 23:37).
2. 2 Chronicles 1:1: And Solomon the son of david was strengthened in his kingdom and the Lord his God was with him, and magnified him exceedingly. The jewish nation was a theocracy so it was a kingdom. 1Chronicles 29:30: With all his reign and his might. And the times that went over him, and over Israel, and over all the kingdoms of the countries. This was about King David and his Kingdom over all the other kingdoms.
The biggest difference in this physical KOH and the Davidic covenabt is the promise of the Messiah. In those days the spiritual KOG was there but not the physical precense of the son of man and the Ancient of Days on the throne which, will happen at the 2nd advent which is still future after the great tribulation. Also, the curse on creation had not been lifted like it will be in the millenial kingdom.; Romans 8:22-23. Even Peter in Acts 2:16-18 talked about Joel’s prophecy of conditions like the spirit falling in the last days. This didn’t happen in David’s day. And even on the day of Pentecost it wasn’t a fulfillment of Joel’s prophecy because in Joel’s prophecy the curse had not been lifted and the son of man and the Ancient of Days were not on the throne physically in this earthly kingdom. God Bless! Jerry Kelso

RyanO’neill: You really didn’t make a clear point. But, If the point according to your first statement is the kingdom is.within you that is correct as far as the spiritual kingdom in our hearts which I said in earlier posts. The Matthew passages are spiritual as well.
You said Daniel was fulfilled but gave no reference. I assume you are referring to Daniel 7:13-14 and vs. 22 and 27. Daniel was not fulfilled for these are references to the milenial kingdom.
The reference to David, the flock, and the judging the 12 tribes are all prophecies to the physical reign in the millenial kingdom with the son of man and the Ancient of Days on the throne physically. God Bless! Jerry Kelso

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