Kneeling after the Lamb of God


#1

I read on Jimmy Akin's website where he says we should not kneel after we say the part
"Lamb of God you take away the sins of the world, grant us peace."

jimmyakin.com/kneeling-at-the-lamb-of-god

I believe Jimmy Akin to be wrong on his answer here...and I believe that EWTN has the right answer...

Because Jimmy Akin says "we have an ""obligation"" to stand...

And EWTN says we should kneel 'unless' the diocesan bishop says otherwise..

Maybe Jimmy Akin is trying to be diocesan bishop to America

Not sure why Jimmy Akin won't correct his answer..:shrug:

ewtn.com/expert/answers/kneeling_after_the_lamb_of_god.htm


#2

Jimmy Akin's answer is not dated. Is there some reason that this might be outdated advice? The adaptation has been there since at least 2002, though. And it is clearly one of the areas in which the national episcopal conference is competent to regulate. I am not sure how Akin's answer can be true. He does not really refer to any documents other than the GIRM in a general way.


#3

Its tough not to respond in the manner in which I would like to respond. :smiley: so I’ll just watch and listen :whistle:


#4

If you look through the website you will find that that question is one that he answered back in the 1990s. At that time the 1975 GIRM was clear that you stood from the Mystery of Faith until then end of Mass. The US had an adaptation that extended the kneeling from the end of the Sanctus to after the Amen but nothing saying to kneel after the Lamb of God.

The universal GIRM still says only kneel for the Consecration but the US adaptation is kneel for the entire Eucharistic Prayer and kneel after the Agnus Dei.


#5

It depends.

Some kneel and some stand, differs church to church.


#6

[quote="Wiseowl, post:5, topic:301834"]
It depends.

Some kneel and some stand, differs church to church.

[/quote]

Oh, I should have added that in the US the rule is to kneel after the Agnus Dei unless the diocesan Bishop decrees otherwise. It should not vary from parish to parish within a diocese.


#7

[quote="Phemie, post:6, topic:301834"]
Oh, I should have added that in the US the rule is to kneel after the Agnus Dei unless the diocesan Bishop decrees otherwise. It should not vary from parish to parish within a diocese.

[/quote]

10 years ago that may have been true. Today the option to stand or kneel is determined by the Pastor. As in St Paul MN some churches stand others kneel.


#8

[quote="Wiseowl, post:7, topic:301834"]
10 years ago that may have been true. Today the option to stand or kneel is determined by the Pastor. As in St Paul MN some churches stand others kneel.

[/quote]

You are incorrect. A priest does not have the authority to decide this issue. It is decided by the diocesan bishop only in the U.S.A.


#9

[quote="dnar, post:8, topic:301834"]
You are incorrect. A priest does not have the authority to decide this issue. It is decided by the diocesan bishop only in the U.S.A.

[/quote]

It's possible that the Bishop has decided to leave it up to individual pastors but that's not a wise idea since pastors change and things get confusing for the congregation.


#10

[quote="Phemie, post:9, topic:301834"]
It's possible that the Bishop has decided to leave it up to individual pastors but that's not a wise idea since pastors change and things get confusing for the congregation.

[/quote]

Indeed. Bishop decides to let Pastors decide matter, which would make sense knowing the congregation. The problem is when a progressive Pastor is replaced by more conservative. But that can affect more than just standing and kneeling.


#11

Titles like that shouldn’t even exist with pastors. ‘Progressive’ or ‘Conservative’…it should be a priest who does what the Church tells him too. They should never add to or take away.


#12

[quote="dnar, post:11, topic:301834"]
Titles like that shouldn't even exist with pastors. 'Progressive' or 'Conservative'...it should be a priest who does what the Church tells him too. They should never add to or take away.

[/quote]

I agree., in a perfect world we don't have progressive and conservative


#13

Here's what the GIRM says:

  1. The faithful should stand from the beginning of the Entrance Chant, or while the Priest approaches the altar, until the end of the Collect; for the Alleluia Chant before the Gospel; while the Gospel itself is proclaimed; during the Profession of Faith and the Universal Prayer; and from the invitation, Orate, fratres (Pray, brethren), before the Prayer over the Offerings until the end of Mass, except at the places indicated here below.

The faithful should sit, on the other hand, during the readings before the Gospel and the Responsorial Psalm and for the Homily and during the Preparation of the Gifts at the Offertory; and, if appropriate, they may sit or kneel during the period of sacred silence after Communion.

In the Dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus (Holy, Holy, Holy) until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by ill health, or for reasons of lack of space, of the large number of people present, or for another reasonable cause. However, those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the Priest genuflects after the Consecration. The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei (Lamb of God) *unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.*

Emphasis Added


#14

[quote="AlexPetrosPio, post:13, topic:301834"]
Here's what the GIRM says:

Emphasis Added

[/quote]

Exactly :thumbsup:

Which is why when I read Jimmy Akin's reply that we are 'obligated' to remain standing, I knew he was giving incorrect information.

If its a old answer from his, he needs to update it or remove that...because alot of people look to him for correct information.

I have attempted to contact him but he ignores everything I send him for some reason.


#15

[quote="dnar, post:14, topic:301834"]
Exactly :thumbsup:

Which is why when I read Jimmy Akin's reply that we are 'obligated' to remain standing, I knew he was giving incorrect information.

If its a old answer from his, he needs to update it or remove that...because alot of people look to him for correct information.

I have attempted to contact him but he ignores everything I send him for some reason.

[/quote]

That particular column is listed in the "Questions" page. That particular page includes this caveat "Below are some questions that I answered back in the 1990s. Please bear in mind that I could answer them better today. As time permits, I will revise them and better integrate them into this site. –Jimmy Akin "


#16

[quote="dnar, post:14, topic:301834"]
Exactly :thumbsup:

Which is why when I read Jimmy Akin's reply that we are 'obligated' to remain standing, I knew he was giving incorrect information.

If its a old answer from his, he needs to update it or remove that...because alot of people look to him for correct information.

I have attempted to contact him but he ignores everything I send him for some reason.

[/quote]

In addition to what Phemie just said you probably are aware that Jimmy has recently undergone cataract surgery.

I would guess that updating answers from the 1990s is low on his list of things to catch up on now that he is better able to see. In fact I would hope it's low on his list. There are too many other things going on now.


#17

We all kneel after the Agnus Dei is sung, in readiness to offer our Confiteor and then be in a suitable posture as the priest turns and presents Our Lord and Our God as we say " Domine, non sum dignus........
Oh sorry, I'm in France, not the USA and we celebrate the EF.


#18

[quote="SMHW, post:16, topic:301834"]
In addition to what Phemie just said you probably are aware that Jimmy has recently undergone cataract surgery.

I would guess that updating answers from the 1990s is low on his list of things to catch up on now that he is better able to see. In fact I would hope it's low on his list. There are too many other things going on now.

[/quote]

If he has time to update his blog as often as he does, then he has time to take that question off and update it. It wouldn't take but a few seconds to do that. I understand he has had eye surgery, but I attempted to contact him long before he had that.


closed #19

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