Kneeling during Agnus Dei


#1

I have started to notice a few people kneeling during the Agnus Dei, Lamb of God, during the OF. It is almost as if they go to kneel before the sign of peace is over. I was wondering if any one knew the reason for this. Is it something that used to be done as a show of respect because of the opening of the tabernacle and they are wanting to show that respect as it used to be or is it something new and a personal devotion. Is it maybe something that is done in the EF mass. Does anyone else do this during the OF and can tell me why?


#2

I believe kneeling and bowing at specific times is up to the local bishop. For example, I know the parish my girlfriend attends people stand when people are receiving communion and do not sit down until all the EM’s have placed the Blessed Sacrament in the Tabernacle. Check the GIRM.


#3

It’s a local custom to a different diocese they have become accustomed to (and so continue).

I was raised in a diocese where all remain standing during the Agnus Dei. My first year of college, I was in a diocese where the custom is to kneel. It was really weird to me and once or twice, I remained standing just because I wasn’t used to it (although I also wanted to lie prostrate another time - I refrained in that case because I didn’t want to cause a scene).


#4

Do you mean that instead of kneeling after the Agnus Dei, they are kneeing while it is still being sung? I think the posters here are misinterpreting your question.


#5

Assuming you are talking about kneeling down as the agnus dei begins, this is the standard practice for the extraordinary form. It is not a part of the rubrics of the ordinary form, however, I believe we will begin to see more mutual enrichment such as this.

3 years ago, during lent, my parish used a different polyphonic agnus dei every week of lent, and in the worship aid, stated that you may kneel if you wish. This was with the full permission of the bishop I might add.

So long story short, no, technically speaking, it’s not in line with the OF rubrics, but I’d be the last person to stop someone from doing so.


#6

That part is correct per GIRM 43. The posture is to kneel after the Agnuse DEi UNLESS the local ordinary specifies a different posture

For example, I know the parish my girlfriend attends people stand when people are receiving communion and do not sit down until all the EM’s have placed the Blessed Sacrament in the Tabernacle. Check the GIRM.

That part is not the perogrative of the bishop. Cardinal George of Chicago, acting as then president of the USCCB, asked the Vatican for a ruling on if GIRM 43 required those who had just recieved Holy Communion to assume a common posture ( such as standing).

The Vatican, which produced the GIRM, responded that posture at that point should not be regulated to an extent so that those who wish to stand, kneel or sit are not free to do so.

adoremus.org/0703Kneel.html


#7

[quote="Diana_Catherine, post:1, topic:287635"]
I have started to notice a few people kneeling during the Agnus Dei, Lamb of God, during the OF. It is almost as if they go to kneel before the sign of peace is over. I was wondering if any one knew the reason for this. Is it something that used to be done as a show of respect because of the opening of the tabernacle and they are wanting to show that respect as it used to be or is it something new and a personal devotion. Is it maybe something that is done in the EF mass. Does anyone else do this during the OF and can tell me why?

[/quote]

I remember everyone kneeling after the Agnus Dei when I was younger because it is a sign of reverence when the priest holds up the Lamb of God and we pray "Lord, I am not worthy for you to enter under my roof but only say the word and my soul shall be healed."

Now in my parish at daily mass most of us still kneel after the Agnus Dei. It is an OF mass but we are free to kneel if we choose too. At Sunday mass only a few people will kneel. I kneel even though I feel like I am the only one and I also bow during the creed when we say,

"For us men and for our salvation He came down from heaven by the power of the Holy Spirit He was born of the Virgin Mary and became man."

We had a very young, holy priest who bowed at this time and most of us bowed too.

A few years ago I went to mass at St. Patrick's in New York and everyone there knelt after the Agnus Dei! It was wonderful! I went to a small Church in New Jersey and they even knelt at this time! Very reverent!

I just don't understand why most Catholics where I live don't want to kneel before God.


#8

Movement and Posture

42 …attention should be paid to what is determined by the General Instruction and the traditional practice of the Roman Rite and to what serves the common spiritual good of the people of God, rather than private inclination or arbitrary choice. A common posture, to be observed by all participants is a sign of the unity of the members of the Christian community, is a sign of the unity of the members of the Christian community gathered for the sacred Liturgy: it both expresses and fosters the intention and spiritual attitude of the participants.

#43 The faithful should stand from the beginning of the Entrance Chant (or gathering song)…until the end of the collect; for the Alleluia chant before the Gospel; while the Gospel itself is proclaimed; during the Profession of Faith, and the Prayer of the Faithful. From the invitation, Orate, fratres (pray, brethren), before the prayer over the offerings until the end of Mass, except at the places indicated below.

Standing after invitation, “pray brethren” and before the people answer
“May the Lord receive the sacrifice…” is new in the revised GIRM.
In the dioceses of the United States, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, large number of people present, or some other good reason. Those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the priest genuflects after the consecration.

For parishes and institutions where kneelers are not yet installed, and for liturgies that take place in a building other than a church, catechesis will need to be given regarding the profound bow.
The faithful kneel after Agnus Dei unless the diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.

In the Archdiocese of Portland, the faithful stand after the Lamb of God.

Our Bishop has determined that we are to stand … I am obedient to my Bishop … some parishes I attend do not … its always a struggle - whether to obey the Bishop or follow the ‘crowd’ …


#9

#10

I agree with the vatican. We are free to kneel, sit, or stand.


#11

You are referring to posture after communion, while YADA was unclear whether s/he meant posture during the consecration or posture after the Agnus Dei. Not the same thing.


#12

I am one of those that kneel during the Agnus Dei. I primarily participate in the Extraordinary Form, and that is how it is done there. I only occasionally participate in the OF. That is usually daily mass during the week, when the EF is not available. But, at the OF too, I kneel during the Agnus Dei.

I think there tends to be more kneeling at the EF (definitely more in the Low Mass). And, obviously, during communion.

As far as that goes… in the OF, I will kneel and receive on the tongue only. Not that that is better or anything… I do it as a sign of respect.


#13

You would be correct to stand after the Agnus Dei until your personal reception of Holy Communion. The Vatican gave that authority to the bishops (GIRM 43).

That is at the heart of obedience :thumbsup:

Just to be clear to everyone ( not you in particular Yada), as there seems to be some misunderstanding; what I was referring to was the posture AFTER one receives Holy Communion and returns to the pew.

Nicea posted that their bishop requested that everyone stand until everyone has received Holy Communion and the Blessed Sacrament was returned to the tabernacle.

The Vatican actually delegated the authority for posture at that point to the individual member of the faithful. We may personally choose to stand, sit or kneel when we return to the pews. And in this case, the heart of obedience would be for others (including the priest and bishop) to follow the Vatican directive on that.


#14

[quote="Elizium23, post:4, topic:287635"]
Do you mean that instead of kneeling after the Agnus Dei, they are kneeing while it is still being sung? I think the posters here are misinterpreting your question.

[/quote]

Just to clarify. It is during the Agnus Dei I was questioning. At our parish and parishes I have attended we stand during the Agnus Dei and then kneel right after but it seems as though some are beginning to kneel during the Agnus Dei.

[quote="superamazingman, post:5, topic:287635"]
Assuming you are talking about kneeling down as the agnus dei begins, this is the standard practice for the extraordinary form. It is not a part of the rubrics of the ordinary form, however, I believe we will begin to see more mutual enrichment such as this.

3 years ago, during lent, my parish used a different polyphonic agnus dei every week of lent, and in the worship aid, stated that you may kneel if you wish. This was with the full permission of the bishop I might add.

So long story short, no, technically speaking, it's not in line with the OF rubrics, but I'd be the last person to stop someone from doing so.

[/quote]

Well, see that is what I wondered because some of the people, not all but some I see doing this are doing other things you might see during the EF, but not the OF.


#15

At one church I go to on weekdays, (near my work) which is Benedictine and very traditional, everyone kneels after the Agnus Dei. But at my home parish, only a few do. I think it is more the case of what you are used to, and of course, people imitating other people. Personally, I think that is a very good time to kneel to the Lord.


#16

I kneel at the consecration prayers and after the Agnus Dei for the Lord I am not worthy prayer. Then I stand and receive Holy Communion on the tongue. I kneel after I receive Holy Communion. I know that all of these postures are allowed at these times in my parish.


#17

Yes - I posted the instructions from our Archdiocesan web page - per our Bishop - we are to remain standing from the Great Amen to the reception of Communion - then we are free to take any posture …

At my son’s parish - they have been instructed to stand until all have recieved [unless for health reasons they are unable to] … This is what the GIRM seemed to instruct until the Holy See provided clarification …

Many parishes - including one I attend regularly - they kneel again after the Great Amen until they rise to approach for Communion … which is not in obedience to the Bishop’s instructions … not sure why they have decided to go their own way in this … :confused: … but that is they way it is …


#18

In Belgium we don’t have this problem, because nobody kneels anymore :frowning: And I don’t think our bishops have rules about the kneeling.

As for me, I kneel during the Agnus Dei. As a matter a fact, in the OF I kneel from just before consecration until the tabernacle is closed (except during the Our Father, where we have to stand). It’s something I decided to myself. If the Lord is present on the altar, you have to be humble and kneel. That is in my opinion the most reverend rule. And it resembles in a way the attitude of the EF, wich I also regularly attend.

If it’s for God, you can’t kneel enough to honor Him :wink:


#19

Wow people in Belguim don’t kneel at all? Do they stand? When did this happen?


#20

A few years ago I went to mass at St. Patrick’s in New York and everyone there knelt after the Agnus Dei! It was wonderful! I went to a small Church in New Jersey and they even knelt at this time! Very reverent!

I never knew people didn’t kneel until I read this thread. I’m always amazed at some of the things people complain about going on during masses because most of those problems are unheard of in most Northeastern parishes. Yet, everyone thinks Northeasterners are a bunch of crazy liberals :rolleyes:.


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