Kneeling during Consecration and Elevation of the Holy Eucharist.


#1

Why don’t the majority of people in the “Western Catholic World” kneel during the Consecration and Elevation of the Holy Eucharist? Is it because the majority of them think they are equals to God?

Don’t they sin against justice? “Justice makes us give to everyone what we owe him. “ To God who is infinite and absolute we must absolutely and infinitely return that respect and honor do to Him; not only with our spirit but with our body in which our spirit is enclosed. Body language shows who you are and has more of an effect on people than do words. Right behavior has a psychological effect not only on adults but also on children who learn by observing them. They would learn proper behavior of an upright spirit and form a good conscience; ask themselves and you more questions regarding faith and morals etc.

Do the majority of people know that this is not right and why don’t they change? Are they to proud or maybe they thinking what “others say.” Braking first commandment to love their God above themselves and above everyone else! Certainly they are not showing infused virtues and the gifts of the Holy Spirit by acting this way. Do they have the gifts of knowledge, understanding, wisdom or the gift of religion that make them render to God the worship that is due to Him?

It could be one of the Western World spiritual diseases called Egoism. Who is like me?
What do you think?


#2

The parish I attend right now has no kneelers, and the pews are pushed so close together that it is difficult to kneel between them. I also have pins in my hip and in my knee that make kneeling on the floor more than just uncomfortable.

When I am at parishes that have kneelers and sufficient space to kneel, I do so, but at this particular parish, it's not very feasible. I do make a profound bow at each sound of the bells, though. :)

I certainly don't consider myself "equal to God."


#3

In my part of the “Western Catholic World”, we kneel. I’ve traveled around my archdiocese a bit, and I’ve never seen anyone, if capable, not kneel.

So, I don’t know who these "majority of people in the “Western Catholic World” are??? :confused:


#4

Why do you equate standing with ego? Any posture is only as good as how we see and understand it. There is nothing inherent in any posture to mean anything unless we ourselves believe it to be.


#5

[quote="asia53, post:3, topic:260327"]
In my part of the "Western Catholic World", we kneel. I've traveled around my archdiocese a bit, and I've never seen anyone, if capable, not kneel.

So, I don't who these "majority of people in the "Western Catholic World" are??? :confused:

[/quote]

No, I don't understand the OP either. Some countries might not kneel for the whole of the prayer, but everyone kneels for the consecration in my experience of countries in Europe.

OP, can you be more specific? What part of the 'Western Catholic World' do you mean?


#6

Our church was built in the 80’s with no kneelers. I kneel anyway on the hard floor and 99% of the people during Mass stand.
Fr. told me that standing is the norm for our area, and I told him sorry Fr., but it isn’t the norm for me. So I kneel during the consecration. I was very respectful when I said that to him…:smiley:


#7

What a very sad church building.


#8

We kneel at our TLM. :signofcross: :)


#9

How is disobedience ‘respectful’?

forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=8491313&postcount=90


#10

Kneeling in church is a comparatively modern phenomenon. In the very first days of the Church, Holy Communion was celebrated sitting around a table as at the Last Supper. From the fourth century until well into the Middle Ages, it was normal to kneel for private prayer, but to stand for the whole of the Mass.

The practice varies from one province to another. In England and Wales, it is normal to kneel for the whole of the Eucharistic Prayer although their is a minority group who favour the French habit of standing after the Elevation. In Italy, practice varies considerably and at many churches you will find people kneeling, standing and sitting.

Kneeling as a sign of submission to the Blessed Sacrament is a personal discipline. It's my preference because I was brought up that way, but please be patient with those who were not.


#11

It wasn't because our priest said it was fine for me to do it since I loved the Eucharist so much, and because I am such a cute little ole white haired granny. That is why...


#12

[quote="asia53, post:3, topic:260327"]
In my part of the "Western Catholic World", we kneel. I've traveled around my archdiocese a bit, and I've never seen anyone, if capable, not kneel.

So, I don't know who these "majority of people in the "Western Catholic World" are??? :confused:

[/quote]

By the W.C. World I mean Canada and the U.S. I am not sure about Europe.
I traveled around few archdioces' myself here in Canada and no one kneels here. Very few people do, usually immigrants.
The only Canadians I have seen kneeling were F.S.S.P parish I visited in Calgary, St. Anthony Church.


#13

[quote="RelapsingSinner, post:12, topic:260327"]
By the W.C. World I mean Canada and the U.S. I am not sure about Europe.
I traveled around few archdioces' myself here in Canada and no one kneels here. Very few people, usually immigrants.
The only Canadians I have seen kneeling were F.S.S.P parish I visited in Calgary, St. Anthony Church.

[/quote]

It is the norm in the United States to kneel, and it is in the American version of the General Instruction of the Roman Missal. I've never been to a non-kneeling American parish. Whatever is done in Canada is up to Canada's bishops. If they don't support kneeling, I think that's unfortunate.


#14

[quote="JM3, post:9, topic:260327"]
How is disobedience 'respectful'?

forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=8491313&postcount=90

[/quote]

The norm established by the Church in the GIRM is to kneel at the Consecration. Should this be impossible, ie, due to lack of space as in JM's church, then kneeling is required.

Lack of kneelers is not sufficient reason, as the Vatican ruled.

This lady is obeying the rules set by those who have authority. The priest does not have the authority to decide this; it is he who is disobedient.

All that being said, in oir culture, standing is respectful. Think of a child at the principle's office: he stands before the desk of the principal, who is seated. So standing is not *dis*respectful.


#15

[quote="JM3, post:9, topic:260327"]
How is disobedience 'respectful'?

forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=8491313&postcount=90

[/quote]

Why obey something that is not right? Her conscience and the gifts made her kneel before God and not before human opinion.
A priest can be in a state of mortal sin and in that state he can't judge right from wrong.


#16

[quote="St_Francis, post:14, topic:260327"]
The norm established by the Church in the GIRM is to kneel at the Consecration. Should this be impossible, ie, due to lack of space as in JM's church, then kneeling is required.

Lack of kneelers is not sufficient reason, as the Vatican ruled.

This lady is obeying the rules set by those who have authority. The priest does not have the authority to decide this; it is he who is disobedient.

All that being said, in oir culture, standing is respectful. Think of a child at the principle's office: he stands before the desk of the principal, who is seated. So standing is not *dis*respectful.

[/quote]

Good answer


#17

[quote="RelapsingSinner, post:15, topic:260327"]
Why obey something that is not right? Her conscience and the gifts made her kneel before God and not before human opinion.
A priest can be in a state of mortal sin and in that state he can't judge right from wrong.

[/quote]

Sure he can. Please don't go and say that the priest also can't say mass validly if he's in a state of mortal sin.


#18

Where do you get "the majority" don't kneel? I've only been in one church, in my whole life, that didn't have kneelers. My parish, and the one I visit about once a month, ALWAYS kneel for the consecration and elevation.

It would be helpful to provide sources when you make such a broad accusation.

[quote="RelapsingSinner, post:1, topic:260327"]
Why don’t the majority of people in the “Western Catholic World” kneel during the Consecration and Elevation of the Holy Eucharist? Is it because the majority of them think they are equals to God?

Don’t they sin against justice? “Justice makes us give to everyone what we owe him. “ To God who is infinite and absolute we must absolutely and infinitely return that respect and honor do to Him; not only with our spirit but with our body in which our spirit is enclosed. Body language shows who you are and has more of an effect on people than do words. Right behavior has a psychological effect not only on adults but also on children who learn by observing them. They would learn proper behavior of an upright spirit and form a good conscience; ask themselves and you more questions regarding faith and morals etc.

Do the majority of people know that this is not right and why don’t they change? Are they to proud or maybe they thinking what “others say.” Braking first commandment to love their God above themselves and above everyone else! Certainly they are not showing infused virtues and the gifts of the Holy Spirit by acting this way. Do they have the gifts of knowledge, understanding, wisdom or the gift of religion that make them render to God the worship that is due to Him?

It could be one of the Western World spiritual diseases called Egoism. Who is like me?
What do you think?

[/quote]


#19

[quote="ConstantineTG, post:4, topic:260327"]
Why do you equate standing with ego? Any posture is only as good as how we see and understand it. There is nothing inherent in any posture to mean anything unless we ourselves believe it to be.

[/quote]

Really? So, body language doesn't mean anything?

Every body posture carries a meaning, and we interpret these meanings by the body posture.

These body signs, body language, posture what ever you want to call them are
universal and not something we ourselves believe to be.


#20

[quote="YoungTradCath, post:17, topic:260327"]
Sure he can. Please don't go and say that the priest also can't say mass validly if he's in a state of mortal sin.

[/quote]

That he can, Sacraments are "Ex opere operato".
Now the opinion of the priest is not. It depend on his holiness and holiness depends on sanctifying grace, did he preserve in it or not. If he did not than he does not have the Gifts of the Holy Spirit and in that state he can't judge properly.


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