Know you are saved? I know the Catholic Church is Christ's Chruch


#1

:wave: all,

I wanted to share some insight into a least this Catholic Christians mindset.

This is not really addressing those who believe in Once saved always saved because of the different theology.

This is for Christians who believe you can “backslide”.

Do you “know” you are saved? If you were to die right now, do you have complete confidence in your hope of heaven?

With that same confidence and knowing, I KNOW the Catholic Church is the Church established by Christ, is the “pillar and foundation of truth”(1Tim 3:15), and will “withstand the gates of hell”(Matt 16:18).

It is with the same confidence and knowing of your salvation, that I know the Catholic Church is the ONE, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church of Christ.

With the same “peace that passes all understanding”, with the knowledge of your salvation, is the same knowing I have in the doctrines of the Catholic Church.

I hope this may help a few of you “see” into at least the mindset of at least this Catholic Christian.

Your sister in Christ:love:
Maria

ps

And before the objection comes up, let me say that I have that confidence in the Chruch because of FIRST and foremost, my Confidence in Christ and the promises in Scripture.


#2

:dancing: AMEN AMEN SISTER MARIAG :dancing:


#3

And I think both of these claims of certainty are false trails.

I don’t think the Christian life is about certainty. Baptists and Catholics make the same fundamental mistake.

Granted, the Catholic version is far more convincing and far closer to the truth. I could see myself accepting it (and have often come close to doing so)–I could never accept the Baptist view.

Edwin


#4

[quote=Contarini]And I think both of these claims of certainty are false trails.

I don’t think the Christian life is about certainty. Baptists and Catholics make the same fundamental mistake.

Granted, the Catholic version is far more convincing and far closer to the truth. I could see myself accepting it (and have often come close to doing so)–I could never accept the Baptist view.

Edwin
[/quote]

:wave:

That is why I wrote that this is some insight into MY mindset. Some (many?) may not have this same view.

But it since I came from the Evangelical crowd, and do believe a person can “know” if they are “saved”(as a Catholic I would call it more of a confidence than a knowing).

It is with this same confidence, I walked with Christ, with the leading of the Holy Spirit, into the Catholic Church.

But honestly, I probably imagine some(most?) Catholics would view this differently. Approach it from a much more intellectual and detailed historical perspective as you do Edwin.

In a Confirmation class I am helping in, it was brought up how we can “feel” when the Holy Spirit touches us.

Peaceful, joyful etc. Many different ways. But one of the teachers also brought up St. John of the Cross (?I think?). He never “felt” anything, but he knew that God was present through the Sacraments and he said he always said yes to God since he had faith that God was present.

So I would disagree that the statement that Christian life is not about certainty. :hmmm: I think I am going to get into trouble with you here. Imprecise emotional vs. precise intellectual.

Let me try anyway.

And also let me state, this once again is trying to give insight into my and possibly a few other Catholic Christians mindset. I have no idea how the Catholic Church defines this.

Through my faith, I have certainty. I just think what people can be certain of through that faith varies. I will take me for example.

When I was a child, through faith, I was certain God existed. I just did not believe that God founded religion.

As I grew, I came to be certain Jesus was God. My faith tells me so.

I think you can get what I mean?

So I believe that God gave me this wonderful gift of faith, that I could be certain of His Catholic Church.

For St. John of the Cross, he was certain, through faith, that Christ was present through the Sacraments even though he “felt” nothing.

God Bless,
Maria


#5

Maria,

I think you have a good point. Sorry for the snippy response. The issue of certainty is pushed so hard by Catholic apologists that I overreact whenever it comes up.

Edwin


#6

[quote=Contarini]Maria,

I think you have a good point. Sorry for the snippy response. The issue of certainty is pushed so hard by Catholic apologists that I overreact whenever it comes up.

Edwin
[/quote]

Well the good news is I couldn’t “hear” how snippy you were.

I just took it as mildly annoyed.:slight_smile:

God bless,
Maria


#7

That was correct. I was only mildly annoyed. But I had no reason to be annoyed at all.

Edwin


#8

The only time I KNOW that I am saved is for about sixty seconds after I receive absolution for my sins in Confession. [And even then, sometimes my scrupulousity kicks in.]

The rest of the time I rely on Hope.

Except that SOMETIMES after decades of practice, I can meditate on the difference between perfect contrition and imperfect contrition… and add that little bit of “english” to my reliance on Hope.

And sometimes, I try to use “guilt” on the Judge, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity… [as in, “Lord, we have been through a LOT together, so I HOPE You will remember me in Your Kingdom.”]


#9

[quote=Al Masetti]The only time I KNOW that I am saved is for about sixty seconds after I receive absolution for my sins in Confession. [And even then, sometimes my scrupulousity kicks in.]

The rest of the time I rely on Hope.

Except that SOMETIMES after decades of practice, I can meditate on the difference between perfect contrition and imperfect contrition… and add that little bit of “english” to my reliance on Hope.

And sometimes, I try to use “guilt” on the Judge, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity… [as in, “Lord, we have been through a LOT together, so I HOPE You will remember me in Your Kingdom.”]
[/quote]

Hi Al,

Question:

Do you know that the Catholic Church is Christ’s church that will withstand the gates of hell and always officially teach the truth?

Could you say you “know” this, even if the “knowing” is more of a confidence because of faith given to you by God?

God Bless,
Maria


#10

[quote=MariaG]Hi Al,

Question:

Do you know that the Catholic Church is Christ’s church that will withstand the gates of hell and always officially teach the truth?

Could you say you “know” this, even if the “knowing” is more of a confidence because of faith given to you by God?

God Bless,
Maria
[/quote]

Don’t mind me cutting in :slight_smile: .

First, I was given the gift of faith. From this gift, I came to understand and to reason from what I see, hear and study. Now this faith has transformed to knowledge. So my belief in Catholicism is not just based on pure faith, but also knowledge.


#11

[quote=cathgal]Don’t mind me cutting in :slight_smile: .

First, I was given the gift of faith. From this gift, I came to understand and to reason from what I see, hear and study. Now this faith has transformed to knowledge. So my belief in Catholicism is not just based on pure faith, but also knowledge.
[/quote]

:wave:
Of Course! First is the gift of Faith, knowledge usually follows that strengthens the faith.

God Bless,
Maria


#12

Your confidence is Christ is the key!

Placing one’s faith in any church is misplaced! The root of all is Jesus. Remember the faith of the thief. What theology did he know, What beliefs did he have?

I place my faith in my Redeemer. I am afraid that in 50 years in the Catholic ChurchI heard very little that made me secure in my salvation. I was always one sin (one second) away from damnation. Now I know a timeless God (Who knows all I have done and all I will ever do) and offers me forgiveness for the asking.

The gates (which are passive) of hell cannot prevail against the Church that seeks actively smash them down and set the prisoners free. The strong man (Satan) has been tied, his house can now be ravaged (people saved).

I know the Gospel is “Good News” not condemnation. Jesus the Redeemer is the Truth that sets one free (from Satan - the Accuser). His work is done - all we need do is believe in Jesus as Lord and Savior and accept His gift (grace).

God Bless


#13

[quote=Anglo-catholic]Your confidence is Christ is the key!

I agree.

Placing one’s faith in any church is misplaced! The root of all is Jesus. Remember the faith of the thief. What theology did he know, What beliefs did he have?

I disagree. It is because of my faith in Christ, and the faith in His promises that I can place my trust in the teachings of the Church. If I cannot trust the promises in Scripture, that the Church is the “pillar and foundation of truth” I see no reason to be Christian because Scripture is a lie.

Col 1:18 - He is the head of the body, the church.

I place my faith in my Redeemer. I am afraid that in 50 years in the Catholic ChurchI heard very little that made me secure in my salvation. I was always one sin (one second) away from damnation. Now I know a timeless God (Who knows all I have done and all I will ever do) and offers me forgiveness for the asking.

Then either you were not listening or you had poor teachers or both. A Catholic Christian can be confident in their walk with Christ.

The gates (which are passive) of hell cannot prevail against the Church that seeks actively smash them down and set the prisoners free. The strong man (Satan) has been tied, his house can now be ravaged (people saved).

I know the Gospel is “Good News” not condemnation. Jesus the Redeemer is the Truth that sets one free (from Satan - the Accuser). His work is done - all we need do is believe in Jesus as Lord and Savior and accept His gift (grace).

As I said previously, if did not hear the Good News in the Catholic Church, you were just not listening. If all you heard was condemnation, you had very poor teachers.

God Bless

And may God Bless you and keep you safe.
Maria

[/quote]


#14

I would have to strongly disagree with this statement. I have made this claim before on other threads on the forum, but I think that the amount of anti-Catholic sentiment and teaching in the world is testimony to the Truth of the Catholic Church. I heard it said once in a Protestant sermon that if he [the pastor] were Satan, the first thing he would do in the world today would be to attack the Church. I could monopolize the thread with this, but the short of it is that Satan would love nothing more than to destroy the Church established by Jesus Christ…the Church that contains the fullness of truth and the full and ordinary means to Salvation. I would hardly consider it coincidence that of all Christian traditions, only the Catholic Church comes under such attacks from all fronts (including within). Satan, evil, and the forces of Hell are very real and very active in their endeavors. I learned this firsthand after my first valid confession after 15 years away from the Church. The closer I got to the Church, the harder Satan tried to keep me away.


#15

[quote=joshua_b]I would have to strongly disagree with this statement. I have made this claim before on other threads on the forum, but I think that the amount of anti-Catholic sentiment and teaching in the world is testimony to the Truth of the Catholic Church. I heard it said once in a Protestant sermon that if he [the pastor] were Satan, the first thing he would do in the world today would be to attack the Church. I could monopolize the thread with this, but the short of it is that Satan would love nothing more than to destroy the Church established by Jesus Christ…the Church that contains the fullness of truth and the full and ordinary means to Salvation. I would hardly consider it coincidence that of all Christian traditions, only the Catholic Church comes under such attacks from all fronts (including within). Satan, evil, and the forces of Hell are very real and very active in their endeavors. I learned this firsthand after my first valid confession after 15 years away from the Church. The closer I got to the Church, the harder Satan tried to keep me away.
[/quote]

:yup: I could not agree more. The lies Satan has been able to spread about the Catholic Church have to one of the biggest. So much so that even when you can get people to admit that the official teachings are not corrupt, those same people are still convinced that the practices “encourage” things like the worship of Mary.

God Bless,
Maria


#16

Joshua_B:

Sorry that you disagree with Christ’s choice of words with regard to this promise.

MariaG:

You must not have been taught by the nuns. I had 16 years of Catholic education (grammar, high school and college) and I am afraid that was my experience. I can honestly say that the majority of Catholics I have ever encountered (that were not converts) did not have a sense of gratitude and grace but one of duty and fear.


#17

:wave:

You are right. I was not taught by them. Something I frequently thank God for. I truly believe those who have taught Catholic education for the last 50 - 60 years have a lot to answer for.

Although technically a revert, my parents left the church when I was four and so I believe in some ways, I was very fortunate to be spared the horrible legality that many have been taught instead of the joy following the rules is supposed to bring.

God Bless,
Maria


#18

MariaG

So you agree that most Catholics and certainly non-Catholics that contact them - would believe that the Church teaches the “nun’s gospel” of fear and punishment.
To be truthful - I spend lots of time correcting non-Catholic’s beliefs about the Catholic Church - even though I am no longer a member.

God Bless!


#19

[quote=Anglo-catholic]MariaG

So you agree that most Catholics and certainly non-Catholics that contact them - would believe that the Church teaches the “nun’s gospel” of fear and punishment.
To be truthful - I spend lots of time correcting non-Catholic’s beliefs about the Catholic Church - even though I am no longer a member.

God Bless!
[/quote]

I agree that most Catholics who left the and many non-Catholics believe the Church teaches “the nun’s gospel”.

But I think those who never left, were able to find and see the real gospel of Christ in spite of the poor teachers who did not reflect the real teachings of the Catholic Church and of Christ.

But you better watch out. I am a revert/convert. In order to correct misunderstandings, I had to learn more about the Catholic Church. If you aren’t careful, you’ll be joining the rest of us:eek: here on these forums who wandered away but have come back with a faith so full and joyful it surpasses words.

Within the Catholic Church I have the best of both worlds. The personal knowledge, leading, and joy of the Lord along with the confidence in the teachings of my Church.

God Bless,
Maria


#20

Anglo-catholic,

Please allow me to qualify my statement. I DO NOT disagree with the words of Christ, I simply disagree with the opinion that Satan, and “the gates of Hell” are “passive”…I have the firm held convictions of personal experience that Satan is very real, very literal, and very actively and agressively trying to destroy humanity both as a whole and as individuals. I, like MariaG, am a “revert”, and I concur that the catechetical instructors that were supposed to have represented the Church over the last several decades will indeed have much to answer for. Ironically enough, just as many other times throughout history, the Catholic Church has weathered the storm of the last 40 years or so, and I can see it now coming back stronger, without having once altered the Deposit of Faith to increase membership. I fully agree that “the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it”.


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.