Kook Group Says JP2 is a Heretic


#1

Why are some people so hateful?

Some try to find the truth, others seem to look for the bad.

What do you all think of this?

romancatholicism.org/101-heresies.html


#2

[quote=cassman]Why are some people so hateful?

Some try to find the truth, others seem to look for the bad.

What do you all think of this?

romancatholicism.org/101-heresies.html
[/quote]

This is a sidebar to Sede Vacantism. Are you just trying to aggitate people? If so I will report this thread.

You got a problem with the Pope kissing the Koran, in order to reverence the truth in the Koran? That’s right he speciously kissed the Koran in order to Pastorally emphasize the truth in the Koran, not the untruth.

You don’t agree with that? Thats fine. You can.

Secondly, Heresy is not an action, it’s a denial of a Dogma. I don’t recall John Paul II every denying a dogma.

Now him kissing the Koran may say to you, that he has denied the Catholic Faith - but it doesn’t say that to everyone. Orthopraxy, Orthodoxy. You don’t agree with John Paul II’s Orthopraxy, fine, you don’t have to. But this is not an issue of Orthodoxy, so don’t even use the term heresy, please.

Thank You.


#3

I don’t think he meant he agreed with the site-I think he thinks it is hateful and was shocked to see this. I do think the title of the thread is confusing, however.

In answer to the question, people are hateful because Satan directs them that way. What better way for Satan to draw souls away from heaven than to attack the Church in a way that appears legitimate and academic?

Peace,

Ellen


#4

[quote=Ellen Marie]I don’t think he meant he agreed with the site-I think he thinks it is hateful and was shocked to see this. I do think the title of the thread is confusing, however.

In answer to the question, people are hateful because Satan directs them that way. What better way for Satan to draw souls away from heaven than to attack the Church in a way that appears legitimate and academic?

Peace,

Ellen
[/quote]

Very well, his meaning doesn’t seem clear to me.


#5

The owner of the site is one Mr. Thomas Sparks, a third order member of the Saint Benedict Center. He is a follower of Father Feeney. Do not click on the link to the Father Feeney “The Point” archives. Most of the articles there are strongly anti-semetic.


#6

[quote=AmandaPS]The owner of the site is one Mr. Thomas Sparks, a third order member of the Saint Benedict Center. He is a follower of Father Feeney. Do not click on the link to the Father Feeney “The Point” archives. Most of the articles there are strongly anti-semetic.
[/quote]

You know, if he agrees with Father Feeney’s “Only Catholics Can Be Saved” Line, I think he’s automatically excommunicated. Maybe someone should bring this site to the attention of his Benedictine Community’s Council. :wink:


#7

[quote=Redeemerslove]You know, if he agrees with Father Feeney’s “Only Catholics Can Be Saved” Line, I think he’s automatically excommunicated. Maybe someone should bring this site to the attention of his Benedictine Community’s Council. :wink:
[/quote]

Father Feeney’s interpretation of Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus may be erroneous, but it is not heretical. How could one be excommunicated for holding to it?


#8

[quote=AmandaPS]The owner of the site is one Mr. Thomas Sparks, a third order member of the Saint Benedict Center. He is a follower of Father Feeney. Do not click on the link to the Father Feeney “The Point” archives. Most of the articles there are strongly anti-semetic.
[/quote]

Did you get an email? I would like to find out where this gentleman lives, contact his bishop and Benedictine Community Council. :slight_smile: As a Secular Order Carmelite, I find it a horrible scandal to see a Secular Order Member engage in this vitriol and schism.

It’s a scandal.


#9

[quote=Redeemerslove]You know, if he agrees with Father Feeney’s “Only Catholics Can Be Saved” Line, I think he’s automatically excommunicated. Maybe someone should bring this site to the attention of his Benedictine Community’s Council. :wink:
[/quote]

His site is full of it. One such article is titled, "The Fewness of the Saved." I don’t know if to believe that only baptized Catholics can get to heaven is excommunicable.

There are also articles against Baptism of Desire there.


#10

[quote=Redeemerslove]Did you get an email? I would like to find out where this gentleman lives, contact his bishop and Benedictine Community Council. :slight_smile: As a Secular Order Carmelite, I find it a horrible scandal to see a Secular Order Member engage in this vitriol and schism.

It’s a scandal.
[/quote]

Nope, but I’ll PM you if you don’t mind.


#11

[quote=ServusChristi]Father Feeney’s interpretation of Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus may be erroneous, but it is not heretical. How could one be excommunicated for holding to it?
[/quote]

One can be excommunicated for schism. One can be excommunicated for many things. Father Feeney was excommunicated. Heres a commentary by a Catholic Catechetics Director:

Eventually, after repeatedly refusing several summons to Rome, he was excommunicated for persistent disobedience to legitimate Church authority by the authority of the Holy See on February 13, 1953, the decree of which was subsequently published in the Acta. (Michael J, Mazza, Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus: Father Feeney Makes a Comeback)


#12

[quote=AmandaPS]Nope, but I’ll PM you if you don’t mind.
[/quote]

Sounds good to me.:slight_smile:


#13

[quote=Redeemerslove]One can be excommunicated for schism. One can be excommunicated for many things. Father Feeney was excommunicated. Heres a commentary by a Catholic Catechetics Director:
[/quote]

Believing an erroneous interpretation of EENS does not make one a schismatic. Charging the Pope with formal heresy and declaring him an anti-Pope does put one in schism.


#14

Hey, certainly Feeney’s interpretation is erroneous. As I understand it, he denies baptism of blood and baptism of desire. Clearly this is contrary to the teachings of the fathers on baptism and salvation.

All I’m saying is that EENS is a complicated doctrine and some people may have erroneous views about it, either to the left or to the right. That doesn’t make them excommunicate. Sedevacantism on the other hand is quite schismatic.
God bless,
Ryan


#15

[quote=ServusChristi]Believing an erroneous interpretation of EENS does not make one a schismatic. Charging the Pope with formal heresy and declaring him an anti-Pope does put one in schism.
[/quote]

Um, you’re reading far too much into my statements. And that’s not what the central issue is here, I believe. It’s the whole tenor of his site, including specific comments about how non-Catholics will not be saved. This statement is schismatic, objectively.


#16

[quote=ServusChristi]Hey, certainly Feeney’s interpretation is erroneous. As I understand it, he denies baptism of blood and baptism of desire. Clearly this is contrary to the teachings of the fathers on baptism and salvation.

All I’m saying is that EENS is a complicated doctrine and some people may have erroneous views about it, either to the left or to the right. That doesn’t make them excommunicate. Sedevacantism on the other hand is quite schismatic.
[/quote]

Fact: According to the commentary by the Catechist I presented, Feeney was excommunicated.

Fact: Feeney made material statements that were schismatic.

Fact: Feeney was warned by the Holy See several times, according to the information I have available. And refused the Holy Sees summons.

Fact: Feeney made these statements on radio, according to many testimonies. Thereby adding scandal to his schism. Feeney was excommunicated according to many articles and letters.

I cannot find the decree of excommunication, but if you can I would be willing to look at it.


#17

Father Feeney was excommunicates, yes. But he was reinstated without ever repudiating his beliefs. Feenyism is a tolerated opinion within the Catholic Church. Erroneous or not, it does not make one a schismatic. Sedevacantism, however, does.


#18

[quote=Hananiah]Father Feeney was excommunicates, yes. But he was reinstated without ever repudiating his beliefs. Feenyism is a tolerated opinion within the Catholic Church. Erroneous or not, it does not make one a schismatic. Sedevacantism, however, does.
[/quote]

Feeneys opinion is tolerated so much, that he was excommunicated. :rolleyes: Are you thinking?

Wrong, an erroneous opinion is excommunicatible offense, when held to firmly against an explicit decree by the Church. It does not require heresy to be excommunicated, it instead applies to certain grave offenses:

1463 Certain particularly grave sins incur excommunication, the most severe ecclesiastical penalty, which impedes the reception of the sacraments and the exercise of certain ecclesiastical acts, and for which absolution consequently cannot be granted, according to canon law, except by the Pope, the bishop of the place or priests authorized by them. In danger of death any priest, even if deprived of faculties for hearing confessions, can absolve from every sin and excommunication.69(Catechism of the Catholic Church)

Schism is one grave offense. Case closed. According to my knowledge, this canon remains unchanged from the 1917 Code, which is contemporary to Feeney.


#19

[quote=Hananiah]Father Feeney was excommunicates, yes. But he was reinstated without ever repudiating his beliefs. Feenyism is a tolerated opinion within the Catholic Church. Erroneous or not, it does not make one a schismatic. Sedevacantism, however, does.
[/quote]

I heard this is asserted by Feniites. And I think it might be true. But I have heard conflicting stories.


#20

[quote=Redeemerslove]Feeneys opinion is tolerated so much, that he was excommunicated. :rolleyes: Are you thinking?
[/quote]

Of course I am. His excommunication was not for heresy per se but for disobedience to his Jesuit Superior and to Boston Archbishop Richard Cardinal Cushing. 20 years later he was reconciled to Rome by Humberto Cardinal Medeiros. The Sacred Congregation for the Defence of the Faith explicitly allowed Fr. Feeney and his followers to continue upholding their strict interpretation of the dogma of extra ecclesiam nulla salus. The Feeneyites even have permission to raise money as a Catholic organization. They are eccentric, yes, but not heretical.


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