Krishna, Mithra and Jesus


#1

I was discussing religion with someone on youtube and I got a message saying this:

"Krishna:
son of a carpenter
Born of a virgin.
Baptized in a river.

Mithra:
Born on the 25th
Performed miracles
Resurrected on the third day
Known as the lamb, the way, the truth, the light, the savior, messiah.

1280 BC the egyptian book of the dead describes a god, Horus…
Horus is the son of the god Osiris.
Born like this: Osiris got cut in pieces, his wife could not find his penis, but used magic to create one and used it to get pregnant (ok not exactly the same but it sure is magic)
Het is baptized in a river by Anup the Baptizer. (the babizer later got beheaded)
Like Jesus, Horus was tempted while alone in the desert.
Healed the sick.
The blind.
Casts out demons.
And walked on water.
He raised Asar from the dead.
He got crucified…
And after 3 days two women announced he had been resurrected."

I had heard of this before, but I didn’t think much of it. What is the explanation for this? Other people believed in a man who called himself God, so what makes Jesus different from these other two men?


#2

As a beginning, here is another thread on such a matter:
forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=637256

Another thread:
forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=561874


#3

This is a brilliant and challenging question. Unfortunately, I do not have a simple and easily aligned with Church Teaching explanation for this. I look forward to reading other responses!

Other people believed in a man who called himself God, so what makes Jesus different from these other two men?

The TEACHINGS, in particular, the Greatest Commandment!

Absolutely no other teaching of any person (past, present, or future) compares to the Wisdom of the Greatest Commandment of Jesus! It is Amazingly Graceful in how it communicates the purpose of living along with the means to achieve the pinnacle of living for any being, as well as the direct connection to Theology, and foundation, fulfillment, and future of the Story of Creation.

Given that over time and throughout all time, absolutely no human knowledge alone has been nor will be able to achieve this quality of Wisdom, it is definitely from God!

Thank you very much for the excellent food for thought! I look forward to further discussion!


#4

Versions of the Golden Rule predate Christianity by hundreds of years.


#5

I don’t know about Krishna… but when such claims are made with respect to Mithra or Horus, often times there is a deliberate (or not deliberate) mis-reading of the myths, conflation of multiple stories & unrelated sources, etc. A lot of this goes back to the 19th century “Comparitive Religion” and was debunked long ago. You can check out the Old Catholic Encyclopedia article on Mithraism for info on some of these claims - the article was probably written in 1908 or so, which tells you how old these claims are. One thing that comes across is that the old mystery religions and cults are really a patchwork of beliefs. So hard to say that there is a single story of Mithra, or Horus, etc. The Egyptian deities seem to be particularly hard to pin down. They change names and identity from one dynasty to the next, and one place to the next. Etc.


#6

843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.

Jesus is a historical person. Unlike the others, who were part of a mythology, Christ walked among us, people from different nations, even who did not believe in him, or who had no special reason to consider him anything more than an ordinary man, saw him and gave witness. Jesus is a historical person. The Jewish saw him and wrote about him. So did the Romans. A Roman emperor went as far as to ask the Senate to include Christ among the known divinities. His resurrection was witnessed by Roman soldiers who did not care much about this executed prisoner, as well as by the hundreds whom the Resurrected Christ spoke to. As a Father of the Church points out, if the resurrection had not been witnessed, how could the poor fishermen who had seen their master been treated so harshly, crucified, and buried, have then preached with utmost faith, even unto martyrdom, all over the known world, the gospel of Christ and the teaching of his resurrection? How could his disciples have performed - and still perform - miracles up to this very day, and expel demons up to this very day in the name of Jesus Christ?


#7

Also, Jesus wasn’t actually born on December 25th. That is just the day that we celebrate his birth since we do not know the exact date. Just a minor detail that many do not know.


#8

No way; they want some attention and use the lack of knowledge of other religions…
There is a very agressive group (z…something.) on you tube, who pushes this kind of allegations. And many other.


#9

Only one was prophesied before He was incarnate.


#10

[quote="filter2700, post:1, topic:300455"]
I was discussing religion with someone on youtube and I got a message saying this:

"Krishna:

son of a carpenter

[/quote]

All the following refutations are from Dvine Evidence and other sources that I will paste here

Like Jesus' earthly father, Krishna's father was also said to be a carpenter. Yet nowhere in the Hindu texts does it say Vasudeva was a carpenter. In fact, we are told he was a nobleman in the courts of Mathura as he was married to Princess Devaki. When Krishna fled the wrath of Kamsa with his foster parents, we are told his foster-father Nanda was a cow-herd: "Thou art the most beloved of Nanda, the Cow-herd" Bhagavata, Bk 8, I, pg 743

Born of a virgin.

A virgin birth is never attributed to Krishna as his parents bore seven previous children. Furthermore, the virgin birth was not a new concept invented by Christians. The book of Isaiah (written about 700 B.C.) spoke of a Messiah who would be born of a virgin. This prophecy was in circulation 700 years before Jesus and at least 100 years before Krishna. (Isaiah 7:14) Critics claim Krishna was born to the virgin Maia but according to Hindu texts, he was the eighth son of Princess Devaki and her husband Vasudeva: "You have been born of the divine Devaki and Vasudeva for the protection of Brahma on earth." Mahabharata Bk 12, XLVIII

Baptized in a river

Where is their any verse Mahabharata that Krisha was baptised in a river?

Mithra:
Born on the 25th

There is no document saying Mithra was born on December 25th

Catholic Answers on Jesus' birth date

Performed miracles

Mirclaes were claimed to be performed by a number of figures in that time and is nto evidence Jesus' miracles depend on Mirthra or were taken from Mirthra

Resurrected on the third day

Terullian wrote about believers in Mithra renacted ressurection scenes but he wrote that after New Testament times. Mithra tradition says nothing that Mithra died, was buried or ressurected

Known as the lamb, the way, the truth, the light, the savior, messiah.

Source?

1280 BC the egyptian book of the dead describes a god, Horus..
Horus is the son of the god Osiris.
Born like this: Osiris got cut in pieces, his wife could not find his penis, but used magic to create one and used it to get pregnant (ok not exactly the same but it sure is magic)
Het is baptized in a river by Anup the Baptizer. (the babizer later got beheaded)

Mural and textual evidence indicate Isis created a penis that she created and concieved Osiris' child. She had another son with Osiris also. There is no writing of Horus being baptised and there is no Anup the Baptizer

Like Jesus, Horus was tempted while alone in the desert.

There is no documentation that says Horus was temped in the desert. There is the following which describes something very different than Jesus in the desert

Healed the sick.

The blind.

No document say this

Casts out demons.

No document say this

And walked on water.

No document says this

He raised Asar from the dead.

No document says this

He got crucified..

And after 3 days two women announced he had been resurrected."

Horus is never said to have been crucified, nevertheless to have died. The only connection we can make to Horus being resurrected is if we consider the eventual merger of Horus and Osiris. But such a theory results in an catch 22, apparently noticed by the Egyptians as they later altered their beliefs to fix the contradictions. In the Egyptian tale, Osiris is either dismembered by Set in battle or sealed in a chest and drowned in the Nile. Isis then pieces Osiris' body back together and resurrects Osiris to conceive an heir that will avenge Osiris' death (although technically Osiris is never actually resurrected as he is forbidden to return to the world of the living). Source and source

"[Set] brought a shapely and decorated chest, which he had caused to be made according to the measurements of the king's body... Set proclaimed that he would gift the chest unto him whose body fitted its proportions with exactness... Then Osiris came forward. He lay down within the chest, and he filled it in every part. But dearly was his triumph won in that dark hour which was his doom. Ere he could raise his body, the evil followers of Set sprang suddenly forward and shut down the lid, which they nailed fast and soldered with lead. So the richly decorated chest became the coffin of the good king Osiris, from whom departed the breath of life." source


#11

I had heard of this before, but I didn’t think much of it. What is the explanation for this? Other people believed in a man who called himself God, so what makes Jesus different from these other two men?

[INDENT]Certain coincidences between Jesus and other figures can only be expected due to sheer probability. As a modern example, let’s look at some of the coincidences between Kennedy and Lincoln as taken from here:

[LIST=1]
*]Lincoln was elected to congress in 1846. Kennedy was elected to congress 1946 (Whereas Kennedy had instant success in legislative and executive politics, Lincoln suffered many defeats).
*]Lincoln was elected president in 1860. Kennedy was elected president in 1960. (Considering presidential elections were held every four years, this only brings the odds to 1 in 20).
*]The names Lincoln and Kennedy both contain seven letters (Until we consider their first names which destroys this parallel).
*]Both were presidents during times of major changes in civil rights (So were their successors and several other presidents).
*]Both presidents were killed by an assassin’s bullet on a Friday (This holds only a one is seven chance).
*]Both assassins were known by three names consisting of 15 letters (Each man was not always referred to by three names. This mainly surfaced after they gained notoriety following the assassinations).
*]Both assassins were killed before their trials (Booth was killed when captured. Oswald was killed days after his arrest).
*]Both men were succeeded by men with the surname of Johnson (Considering the popularity of the surname Johnson among white males, it would be no more of a coincidence by comparing two Muslim men who share the name Mohammed.)
[/LIST]

These coincidences may seem startling at first but really aren’t that impressive once dissected. But in 2000 years, will future civilizations look back on the “ancient Americans” and accuse Kennedy of being a figment of our imaginations? Will it seem we were so intrigued with Abraham Lincoln that we invented a character to mirror a great American hero? The intelligent mind who is willing to do the research and look for the
truth behind such propaganda can easily find it.[/INDENT]


#12

Father Barron had answered the key question in the OP.
youtube.com/watch?v=wZk9Lb22KrE&feature=plcp


#13

Lewis has Applied his popular trilemma on the second Person of the Trinity ; Jesus Christ.
how? by reading the gospels.

In that case above, I would further apply it to the third Person of the Trinity; The Holy Spirit.
how? by reading all of the Gospels, the Catechism, the Theology and the Saints and their lives, searching for any contradiction in the Faith and its developed theology, its timeless rigor and its ever progressive defense, as well as checking the sustainability of the Church against evil forces from the outside and the inside, also by studying Her rich history from Her very beginning all the way up to our current days, tracing it back and forth… and checking up the spiritual fruits if i may say, and project Her on the whole plane of time and space, past present and future and see if The Church does stand to what she claims to be ; one, holy, universal and apostolic.
And decide for yourself if Christianity is: Lord(Truth), Liar(Lie) , Lunatic(insanity) or Legend(fabrications)


#14

With regard to Mithra, a major problem occurs with arguing for Jesus copying the Mithras story. Put simply, much of what is actually attributed to Mithras came AFTER accounts of Jesus’ life were being widely circulated.

The earliest accounts of Mithras doing/being those things mentioned in the OP came in about 250-300AD, at a time when the stories Gospels were well-known to most people, Christian and pagan. It is likely that the details of Jesus’ life were then added to the accounts of Mithras, likely to add credibility to the cult in the face of the new religion.


#15

Did the two suffered and died for the sake of mankind?


#16

[quote="_Abyssinia, post:11, topic:300455"]
[INDENT][INDENT]Certain coincidences between Jesus and other figures can only be expected due to sheer probability. As a modern example, let's look at some of the coincidences between Kennedy and Lincoln as taken from here:

[/quote]

:clapping:
This comment is made of win.


#17

For added probability coincidence Lincoln was shot in the Ford theatre while Kennedy shot in a Ford Lincoln automobile.

Point still stands your honor:D

MJ


#18

Where in human history can we claim “Here is Mithra” or “There is Krishna”? Christianity is a very historical religion. This Sunday I am going to read “Who Moved the Stone?” and suggest that you do too…


#19

Pick up the book “The Case for the Real Jesus” by Lee Strobel. He addresses this issue at length and we see that these assertions came up in the 19th century as well. Basically these beliefs were adopted by other religions. In addition, none of these other “Messiahs” have centuries old prophecies about their coming like Jesus did.
God Bless


#20

Hinduism by and large, does not have much in the way of forgiveness, but Krishna either as a historical person, or mythical person, would have been the reincarnation of some other being: a contrast against Jesus’ birth being incarnate; but the “baptism” in the river, what presence would there be of a monotheistic God, proclaiming his son with the presence of The Holy Ghost?


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