Ladies - be your Guys Number One Fan


#1

Is this the reason some guys do have an affair

take a look at this you tube video

youtube.com/watch?v=twlWiZMKaOA&NR=1


#2

[quote="JRPO, post:1, topic:182520"]
Is this the reason some guys do have an affair

take a look at this you tube video

youtube.com/watch?v=twlWiZMKaOA&NR=1

[/quote]

Well, your question asks about "some" guys. Who knows, there is probably a lot of truth in this claim. Everyone wants to be believed in, male and female. From the You Tube vid I'd say if a man went chasing an affair because his wife doesn't beleive in him, it would be a self confidence boosting effort. Then again, if he's not given his self confidence in the marriage, he might find it hard to start another relationship. Catch 22.

I think most people who have affairs are blind to what they already have. If they are so unhappy, they should either rectify the situation, through marriage counselling if talking wont work, or bail out, not make things worse by bringing in a third party and destroying their own self respect and the confidence of others.


#3

Yes well there is something for both husband and wife in Saint Paul to the Ephesians Chapter 5 verse 33 -
you also, each one of you, must love his wife as he loves himself; and let every wife respect her husband


#4

There are some differences between men and women and say, similarly as women need to be, say, cherished (old word, I know), men need to be respected. This is not to say that a woman doesn’t feel a need for respect or that a man doesn’t care if he’s cared for, but their needs aren’t identical. What’s common is that we need some appreciation, possibly affirmation, of our role as a man or as a woman.

Looking for an affair is not an answer. We can try and offer some sympathy to a person who fell to temptation after being mistreated in a marriage, but this is not so easily done in case of someone who makes the decision actually to look for an affair.


#5

That original question of mine was probably the wrong one to ask.

The link I posted originally mentions the possible reason why some may choose to have an affair.
affairs though is not what I wanted to talk about on this thread. Maybe there is some thing for marriage preparation in this original post. It would appear on the surface that most of us have a lot of trouble understanding the opposite sex and maybe that is the reason that most of the marriages that breakdown crumble to bits.We just don't understand each other enough.

I found this link very enlightening. Please take a look.

youtube.com/watch?v=GuMZ73mT5zM


#6

Why do you think this? Has there been real research done on this, or is it just the opinion of some author writing a relationship self-help book?


#7

It’s just an observation about nature. I think many people with life experience can recognize the truth of that idea, on the deepest needs of men and women. Don’t think of it in exclusive terms, ff. Like, for instance respect is the *only *thing that men need, and *only *men need respect, and vice versa, etc. That would be an error.


#8

I don’t know, it doesn’t agree with my experience of myself, my friends, or my family. I am guessing the author of the Mars/Venus book or some other such book made this statement and people read it and accepted it without really thinking if the author had a legitimate source for that information or simply made it up.

The only way this even makes sense to me if “respect” is a code word for narcissism/desire for power.


#9

It wasn’t made up by the Mars/Venus people lol. I do know there have been some recent books about it, but it’s a general observation about nature. :shrug: Just because you don’t see it doesn’t mean millions of people, generations and generations of people, haven’t seen it.

I have no idea what you mean in the last statement about respect = narcissism. Explain more? :slight_smile:


#10

Well the thing is, if people were actually trying to find out what men and women want they might run a study and ask men and women what they want. You might have them rate things like “being cherished” and “being respected” (after defining those words), and see how the results for men and women differ.

That you’re even saying “millions of people, generations and generations of people” to me sounds like you’re just making it up. You certainly don’t know millions of people or what they think, and you certainly don’t know what generations and generations of people have thought.

As for the narcissism bit, I was just talking about how this might coincide with my personal experience. My personal experience is that men are more narcissistic than women and have more lust for power/desire to dominate others than women do. I don’t know if that’s generally true, but true in my limited experience. So if “respect” is code word for being in a position of power and being admired like a narcissist might want to be admired, then yeah, I’ll believe men have more of that than women.


#11

I don’t wish to pry but in what way is it inconsistent with your experience of yourself? There’s a lot of synonyms to “cherished”, such as loved, cared for, treasured, pampered (on the unserious side) and so on. Do you say that’s not your priority in love? As far as the men go, is your experience that men want those things instead of, say, being respected, somewhat admired, recognised in their role as the “big guy”, more so than they would need to be protected, pampered, treasured etc?

It seems to me you just want to negate a simple observation of life, which is perfectly consistent with the evolutionary role as the caretaker (woman) and the provider and defender (man). This may not be politically correct and there may be some ways to keep challenging it on logical grounds, but if you pick that kind of criteria, then few things in life are true.

And no, respect is respect, not narcissism, nor power. Not every man who feels fulfilled when he is being respected has NPD or a desire for power. Nor can it reasonably be said that NPD and desire for power, at least in a severe form, are common among men. I’m sorry for the bad kind of men you must have had experience with, but those aren’t all men, they are just samples.

And let’s not get into the “prove it” of differences between men and women. Men and women aren’t identical and their brains aren’t either. Some differences are exaggerated, others are cultural and yet others elude proper scientific classification. However, it wouldn’t be very scientific to claim that women and men are the same because heh, what science is it that denies basic things everybody can intuitively perceive?

That would be a study of what they think they want and what they actually want is not the same as what they need anyway.

If you are ready to say that obsessive or otherwise deviated desire of this kind is more common in men than in women, then how come it’s so hard to accept that a healthier desire wouldn’t be similarly more common?

And men are not more pathological than women are these days, I believe. Sure, there’s a lot of vice and a lot of poor character, but it doesn’t hold any single sex in a tighter grip.


#12

[quote="chevalier, post:11, topic:182520"]
I don't wish to pry but in what way is it inconsistent with your experience of yourself? There's a lot of synonyms to "cherished", such as loved, cared for, treasured, pampered (on the unserious side) and so on. Do you say that's not your priority in love? As far as the men go, is your experience that men want those things instead of, say, being respected, somewhat admired, recognised in their role as the "big guy", more so than they would need to be protected, pampered, treasured etc?

[/quote]

Well it probably depends on how "respect" is defined. I am definitely not interested in being recognized as the "big woman" or whatever (nor am I interested in being with a man who wants me to recognize him as the "big guy", for me that kind of desire would be a sign to run).

But I would definitely want the guy I was with to be proud of me, it would be as important to me as being protected and pampered. I wouldn't say one is more important than the other, both have to be there for me to want to be with the guy. If he didn't think very highly of me and I knew it, I wouldn't want to be with him. If he wasn't protective and warm, I wouldn't want to be with him either.

What about you? Would you say that one is vastly more important than the other? Or are both important?

It seems to me you just want to negate a simple observation of life, which is perfectly consistent with the evolutionary role as the caretaker (woman) and the provider and defender (man). This may not be politically correct and there may be some ways to keep challenging it on logical grounds, but if you pick that kind of criteria, then few things in life are true.

In my understanding of evolution (and note that I don't have a degree in biology or anthropology), you simply can't make that kind of a claim. Take the Bushmen, who today live the closest to the conditions we evolved under (or did when I was reading about them). The women provide most of the food because they gather nuts and the like for their families (most of their diet). The men hunt but what they hunt is shared by the entire tribe, and comprises a relatively small part of their diet. So men in fact depend on women to provide them with food in that particular society, and one of the reasons for a guy to get married is to have a wife to gather nuts for him.

Who is to say how our ancestors lived, but I think this idea of the woman sitting around and nurturing rather than working hard and providing exists only among wealthy people who can afford to have the woman have the man provide for her. Our ancestors probably all had to work very hard and provide as their survival depended on it.

I also think that if what you were saying were true, women wouldn't have gone to such great lengths to win rights and opportunities for themselves to essentially live what you would call a man's life.

And let's not get into the "prove it" of differences between men and women. Men and women aren't identical and their brains aren't either. Some differences are exaggerated, others are cultural and yet others elude proper scientific classification. However, it wouldn't be very scientific to claim that women and men are the same because heh, what science is it that denies basic things everybody can intuitively perceive?

I certainly don't think men and women are identical, but I would question generalizations made without actual data to substantiate them. Genetics and culture both contribute to how human beings develop, and as our culture has changed in the last century so have our understandings of gender roles/differences between the sexes and so on.

That would be a study of what they think they want and what they actually want is not the same as what they need anyway.

Which would still be far more accurate than someone than someone making generalizations about men and women out of their own personal experiences and understandings.

If you are ready to say that obsessive or otherwise deviated desire of this kind is more common in men than in women, then how come it's so hard to accept that a healthier desire wouldn't be similarly more common?

Well, I'm not ready to say that in general and I was just talking about my personal experience.

But still, even if true, all it says is that men would be more likely than women to want power, or to want to be worshipped by others. If you grant that this is just the unhealthy variant of the healthy desire to want to be liked and well thought of, then I guess you could make an argument that maybe men might be more likely than women to want to be liked/well thought of/have influence.

But it doesn't say that most men would want this over being loved, or that most women would want being loved over this. Which I think is what the other poster wanted to say.

Everything in my experience suggests that both sexes want both respect and warmth/affection, which again, is no better than someone making a claim that men want respect and women want love. I admit that I could well be wrong.


#13

[quote="flyingfish, post:10, topic:182520"]
Well the thing is, if people were actually trying to find out what men and women want they might run a study and ask men and women what they want. You might have them rate things like "being cherished" and "being respected" (after defining those words), and see how the results for men and women differ.

That you're even saying "millions of people, generations and generations of people" to me sounds like you're just making it up. You certainly don't know millions of people or what they think, and you certainly don't know what generations and generations of people have thought.

As for the narcissism bit, I was just talking about how this might coincide with my personal experience. My personal experience is that men are more narcissistic than women and have more lust for power/desire to dominate others than women do. I don't know if that's generally true, but true in my limited experience. So if "respect" is code word for being in a position of power and being admired like a narcissist might want to be admired, then yeah, I'll believe men have more of that than women.

[/quote]

Ok, I understand the comment now. The comment I made about "millions" of people, etc. does sound like hyperbole. But I'm not making up the concept. Trying to put across that, in my world and among my family, these are just observations about the nature of men and women. It wouldn't even occur to me to question it because when I first heard it, it rang true as a bell to me. Conversely, your experiences, I think, make it hard for you to believe it.

Also, I don't believe that everything in life has to be defined and quantifed, etc. by a study you know? There are some things that are objectively true, and this observation about men and women struck me as true, I believe upon refelction, because it jibes with what the Church teaches about men and women.


#14

The problem I have with those kinds of statements is that they are never completely true. It might be true for example that respect is the main source of “love points” for 70% of men, but some woman going through a troubled marriage might be married to a man who is primarily interested in being loved. This kind thing might make her behave in a way that she thinks is great for fixing the relationship, but actually isn’t.

Any kind of blanket statement of “men want this and women want that” is problematic int his way.

Plus, you can’t deny that gender roles have changed drastically over the past century. Men and women are raised differently nowadays, so things that might have been true about most men and women in the past might be mostly false today.


#15

*I think it makes perfect sense that we should praise our husbands…I am my husband’s number one ‘‘fan,’’ and he’s mine. On most days, this serves to be true, I think. :wink:

I think we all need that boost…the outside world beats us up enough…the home should be a haven or a refuge for spouses to come and seek comfort and support. It’s not just men who cheat, either. Women who are not shown love and cherished, often stray to find it elsewhere too. That said, I’m not a believer in giving excuses for sin. Cheating is never an answer to marital problems, and often, cheating is about the cheater, not the marriage. I have known friends and family who have cheated, and I’ve noted that in all of their cases they a) didn’t have a strong relationship with Christ and b) they were looking for another person outside of their marriage to solve an internal character flaw, or problem. Many people think cheating is a reaction to something a spouse is or is not doing–or the spouse has grown unattractive, or doesn’t have sex, etc etc…but, often times, it’s not the case at all. My husband had a female friend who was married and she was stunning…truly stunning–and her husband was a CHRONIC cheater. Bottom line, he was an immature little man who had mother issues, and treated all women badly. She was a great wife…so we need to be very very careful to not point fingers at injured spouses and say…’‘well, if only she/he was doing this or that…’’

Not to say that infidelity can’t stem from marital problems, but I am not a believer in giving people potentially viable excuses to cheat. Cheating is wrong, it’s sinful, and there really are no ‘‘valid’’ excuses. If you have problems in yourself or marriage, go to your spouse to explain yourself, to work it out…to work on the issues. But, don’t sleep around.

Other than those things I mention, point well taken, JRPO! :)*


#16

True, but that’s if you choose to look at it as a blanket statement instead of in a general sense. That’s why I said in my first post, don’t look at it in an exclusive way and it *might *make more sense.

Plus, you can’t deny that gender roles have changed drastically over the past century. Men and women are raised differently nowadays, so things that might have been true about most men and women in the past might be mostly false today.

Personally I couldn’t care less about changing, modern gender roles. :stuck_out_tongue: They’ll be obsolete in a few years. I would never let what is current in this (sick) culture define my concept of what is true. EDIT: At least, I try very hard not to.


#17

*Gender roles have nothing to do with men wanting to be told how great they are…who wouldn’t want to hear such wonderful things from their honey? :love: It takes little effort and it goes a LONG way when my husband and I praise each other. *


#18

I brought up changing gender roles because some of these generalizations are from the past. Even if they were somewhat useful back then, they might not be anymore since society has changed.


#19

According to this, gifted boys/men and girls/women tend to be more androgynous than other males and females:

giftedandld.blogspot.com/2008/06/gifted-androgyny.html

Gifted girls and gifted boys are generally more androgynous than other children (Kerr, 1997; Kerr & Cohn, 2001), a condition that results in both benefits and problems. Interests of gifted girls are usually much broader than the typical girl. They may enjoy girl Scouts, craft projects, and dance, but they may also like rock climbing, fishing, and distance running - the more traditional male interests. Interests of gifted boys likewise are generally more androgynous and have a broader range (Herbert, 2002). Gifted boys may like the traditional football, but they may also enjoy dance and gardening. It is gratyfying to see these children develop their potential in so many areas. However, their androgyny may cause them, and others, to be somewhat concerned about gender identity. Adults with broad and androgynous interests may also experience problmes deriving from their multipotentiality. Their changing passions may make it difficult to establish a long-term career commitment to any one field. Others may judge them to be superficial and flighty.

-Webb, Amend, Webb, Goerss, Beljan, Olenchak, "Misdiagnosis and Dual Diagnoses of Gifted Children and Adults"

There is always the difficulty of defining "gifted" but a lot of people use high IQ or moderately high IQ combined with creative activity/potential or giftedness in some other area (music, arts, etc.).


#20

That’s the thing though-- I don’t think the love & respect thing comes from past gender roles at all. It’s just an observation about the nature of men and women.

Although the concepts are in line with the Church’s teachings the natures of men and women, the love & respect idea (as presented practically in the books we’ve mentioned) isn’t an infallible teaching. So…really it’s not an issue if you don’t understand it, or if you do and just don’t like/agree with it. :slight_smile:


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