Lady Mary


#1

Hello! My name is Tyler and i have grown up in a local "non-denominational" Church and recently began finding that i like a lot of catholic traditions like the Rosary and Lent along with just the Catholic Creed. Now in any church have been to they of course do not pray to Mary and was wondering if you all could help enlighten me on the topic of Mary and why catholics believe in prayer to her. While i don't see myself fully converting to catholicism due to the fact that i believe in the priesthood of all believers i do find many of the catholic traditions very interesting. Thank you!


#2

actually just to point out, Catholics beleive in the Priesthood of all beleivers too, God bless


#3

[quote="CountrySteve, post:2, topic:293916"]
actually just to point out, Catholics beleive in the Priesthood of all beleivers too, God bless

[/quote]

Yes, the common priesthood was lost at Mt. Sinai when the Isrealites made the molten calf.

**The Levites carried out the command of Moses, and that day there fell about three thousand of the people.* (Exodus 32:28)*

The common priesthood was restored by the Holy Spirit at Pentacost.

**Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand persons were added that day.* (Acts 2:41)*

-Tim-


#4

[quote="Tkehrein, post:1, topic:293916"]
Hello! My name is Tyler and i have grown up in a local "non-denominational" Church and recently began finding that i like a lot of catholic traditions like the Rosary and Lent along with just the Catholic Creed. Now in any church have been to they of course do not pray to Mary and was wondering if you all could help enlighten me on the topic of Mary and why catholics believe in prayer to her. While i don't see myself fully converting to catholicism due to the fact that i believe in the priesthood of all believers i do find many of the catholic traditions very interesting. Thank you!

[/quote]

Mary is “worshipped” as first and best disciple of Jesus. She represents all that we ought to be and, praise God, can be." All “ we need do is to “believe” as she believed with her whole heart and soul, to give herself fully to her son and Lord. Thru her God became incarnate, became flesh, like you and me in every way, except sin. And because the child she bore was holy, so she was holy. So every honor we pay to her, is an honor we pay to him. Every prayer we say to her is also a prayer to him.


#5

[quote="TimothyH, post:3, topic:293916"]
Yes, the common priesthood was lost at Mt. Sinai when the Isrealites made the molten calf.
The Levites carried out the command of Moses, and that day there fell about three thousand of the people. (Exodus 32:28)
The common priesthood was restored by the Holy Spirit at Pentacost.
Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand persons were added that day. (Acts 2:41)

-Tim-

[/quote]

wow, thanks for sharing that, i always knew that but not the verses, it wow'd me about the 3000, God bless


#6

[quote="Tkehrein, post:1, topic:293916"]
Hello! My name is Tyler and i have grown up in a local "non-denominational" Church and recently began finding that i like a lot of catholic traditions like the Rosary and Lent along with just the Catholic Creed. Now in any church have been to they of course do not pray to Mary and was wondering if you all could help enlighten me on the topic of Mary and why catholics believe in prayer to her. While i don't see myself fully converting to catholicism due to the fact that i believe in the priesthood of all believers i do find many of the catholic traditions very interesting. Thank you!

[/quote]

The Church from the very beginning has taught that all the baptized are the fulfillment of Old Testamtent prophesies where God said He would raise up for Himself a priestly people, in another place, a royal priesthood, and in another place a nation of priests.

Mary is a unique creature in salvation history. She is daughter of the Father, mother of the Son, and spouse of the Holy Spirit. She was made pregnant with God by God.

In this unique relationship to the Holy Trinity, by God's design a human woman becomes greater than all created beings.


#7

We don't worship Mary. We venerate her by hyperdulia which venerates her as the best of all the Saints. Know Mary, know Jesus, no Mary, no Jesus


#8

[quote="RobbyS, post:4, topic:293916"]
Mary is “HONORED” as first and best disciple of Jesus. She represents all that we ought to be and, praise God, can be." All “ we need do is to “believe” as she believed with her whole heart and soul, to give herself fully to her son and Lord. Thru her God became incarnate, became flesh, like you and me in every way, except sin. And because the child she bore was holy, so she was holy. So every honor we pay to her, is an honor we pay to him. Every prayer we say to her is also a prayer to him.

[/quote]

FIXED!!!

[quote="Christine85, post:7, topic:293916"]
We don't worship Mary. We venerate her by hyperdulia which venerates her as the best of all the Saints. Know Mary, know Jesus, no Mary, no Jesus

[/quote]

Mary definitely has an integral role in Jesus's life and message

not to mention as Catholics we strive to have a personal relationship with Jesus , but we also want to know about his Family and Friends and ask for their help and look to them as examples of Christs teaching through their acts in their lives , and use them as role models, and of course ask for their intercession with prayer, just like it says in the bible

may you find your way Home fellow Christian :D


#9

[quote="Tkehrein, post:1, topic:293916"]
Hello! My name is Tyler and i have grown up in a local "non-denominational" Church and recently began finding that i like a lot of catholic traditions like the Rosary and Lent along with just the Catholic Creed. Now in any church have been to they of course do not pray to Mary and was wondering if you all could help enlighten me on the topic of Mary and why catholics believe in prayer to her. While i don't see myself fully converting to catholicism due to the fact that i believe in the priesthood of all believers i do find many of the catholic traditions very interesting. Thank you!

[/quote]

Hello Tkehrein,

First I would ask with you to read Nativity narrative along with the Canticle of Mary, which is right there with the Nativity story in the Gospel of Luke. It reveals a lot of why we love and honor The Blessed Mother. We in no way worship Mary (an earlier post accidentally said that).

As a cradle Catholic with a Catholic grammar school background, I grew in my love for The Holy Family in this order: Jesus, Mary, and Joseph. My love was deep rooted and is still with me. As I grew older I found myself always defending the Blessed Virgin Mary. During these times I dug as deep as I was and am able to honor my Savior's mom and quite successfully I might add.

Many Protestants' disdain for my Church and it's teachings has lit a fire in me to defend through the Bible the fullness of the truth which is only in the Catholic Church.

I know that as a non-Catholic you will not agree with my last sentence and I don't expect you would, but if at all possible I will try with help from above. To help you see why we know that our Church has the fullness of the truth. And, Mary is a great place to start.

May Hod bless you,

Jpaul


#10

Well, we Catholics actually believe in the priesthood of every baptized person. As long as the person, at any age even if they are too little to understand it yet, has been baptized in the Name of the Father, and the Son and the Holy Spirit by a ministerial priest (or any other person in case of emergency), that person becomes a prophet, a king and a priest. The person can also get baptized by desire if it can't get baptized or by martyrdom. The priesthood of the ministerial priests (the ones that can celebrate Mass and administer the Sacraments) is different than the royal priesthood every baptized shares.

Sorry for going off topic, but felt the need to point that out. Now, on topic stuff: We believe in the prayer to the Blessed Virgin Mary because we really see her as our true Mother and the most powerful intercessor (even if Jesus is the only mediator between God and man, she prays for us just as you can pray for your beloved ones, so we ask for her intercession), since she being the Mother of God, her Son can't deny anything she asks for. Jesus on the Cross presented her to John as his Mother, and in that sign He presents her to all of us as our Mother. As our Mother she loves all of us and would do anything to have our souls saved and help us avoid sin. Also, she is mediator for all graces, and has claimed that she will not deny anything that is asked to her when praying the Holy Rosary (as long as it's not something that goes against the Will of God, of course; this was a promise of Rosary she left in an apparition).

Of course, we don't worship her, as we clearly know she is not God and is no greater than her Son Jesus Christ, but we venerate her as the Queen of all saints, and know that every prayer we do to her is also done to her Son.

She is also one of the greatest mysteries of the Catholic faith, as she apparently chose that the apostles and preachers of her time should not talk about her but only tell the necessary and most essential stuff, so that's why the Bible tells almost NOTHING about her, However, she is mentioned since the first book of the Old Testament (she is the woman who God says will step on the serpent's head) and is mentioned in the Apocalypse, too (she is the woman robed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars). Everything we currently know about Mary has been slowly discovered with the light of the Holy Spirit through the centuries, but due to the highness she was elevated to, we will never know everything about her.

There's a lot that can be said about her, the most perfect creature of all: She was conceived without the original sin by the omnipotence of God (this is called the dogma of the Immaculate Conception), stayed a virgin all her life and never met sin, and this was because the Mother of the Christ had to be a totally pure creature. There's a lot that you can investigate about her in official Catholic media, many saints had written about her (some of the most recommended readings are "True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary" by St. Louis-Marie Grignion de Montfort and "The Glories of Mary" by St. Alphonsus Maria de Liguori). There has also been multiple apparitions of her through history, always leaving a message, and there's even an image of herself that she left in one of the apparitions and no man painted it, Our Lady of Guadalupe who appeared in Mexico (the image she left is of her but with Mexican facial features and skin color, and that image has been studied several times by scientists and found out to be something impossible for a human being to paint it the way it was at the time she appeared). Get to truly know her and you will fall in love. She, together with Jesus, is my best friend. Sorry for the lengthy reply. Blessings!


#11

[quote="Tkehrein, post:1, topic:293916"]
Hello! My name is Tyler and i have grown up in a local "non-denominational" Church and recently began finding that i like a lot of catholic traditions like the Rosary and Lent along with just the Catholic Creed. Now in any church have been to they of course do not pray to Mary and was wondering if you all could help enlighten me on the topic of Mary and why catholics believe in prayer to her. While i don't see myself fully converting to catholicism due to the fact that i believe in the priesthood of all believers i do find many of the catholic traditions very interesting. Thank you!

[/quote]

II. THE COMMUNION OF THE CHURCH OF HEAVEN AND EARTH

What is the Communion of the Saints?

This is the very ancient dogma called the Communion of Saints. It means that the life of each individual son of God is joined in Christ and through Christ by a wonderful link to the life of all His other Christian brethren.

Together they form the supernatural unity of Christ's Mystical Body so that, as it were, a single mystical person is formed. Consequence of the doctrine of the Mystical Body "All who belong to Christ and are in possession of His Spirit, combine to make one Church with a cohesion that depends on Him (cf. Eph. 4:16).

The union of the living with their brethren who have fallen asleep in Christ, is not broken; the Church has rather believed through the ages that it gains strength from the sharing of spiritual benefits.
<...>
What is special about Mary?

Mary is rightly honoured as Mother of God, Mother of the Redeemer. She received the Word of God in her heart and in her body and she gave Life to the world.

Redeemed by her Son in a special manner, she is intimately related to him with an unbreakable bond. To her belongs the dignity of being the Mother of God's Son, the chosen daughter of the Father, the dwelling place of the Spirit. On account of this tremendous office Mary soars far above all other creatures.

Catholics believe that when we honour Mary we are honouring God who gave her all she has and is. All her greatness flows from her closeness to Christ. As she herself says: "The Almighty has done great things for me. Holy is His name", (Luke 1:49). That attitude is ours too.

  1. Mary, our Mother

Mary is the Mother of the Catholic Church. Even more she is truly the mother of the faithful because by her love she has helped to bring about the birth of all who are members of the Church. Therefore her role is unique and she is recognised as a figure and model of the Church in her faith and in her love.

There is only one mediator between God and ourselves and that is Jesus Christ. (cf. 1 Timothy 2:5-6). Mary's role as Mother of men does not obscure his mediation but actually shows its power more clearly. For whatever she does for our salvation springs solely from God's grace and the fullness of Christ's merits.

So Mary's role, being based on Christ's mediation from which it draws its strength, on which it is entirely dependent, only serves to bring the faithful more closely to Christ.

Reference: Redemptoris Mater (On the Blessed Virgin Mary in the life of the Pilgrim Church) Pope John Paul II, 1987. This document is available from Vatican website, www.vatican.va and directly here.

Mary is also the Queen of Heaven. In Davidic tradition, the queen was always the mother of the King. Jesus is King in the line of David so His Mother automatically becomes the Queen. His Kingdom is not here, but in Heaven, so Mary is Queen of Heaven. The Gebirah, the title given to Queen Mothers, had a great deal of power given to her by the King. She controlled access to him. One had to appeal to the Queen to gain an audience with the King.

Scripture indicates that the Gebirah assumed a throne alongside her son [see 1 Kings 2:19] and exercised her role as counselor [2 Chronicles 22:3] and intercessor to the king [1 Kings 2:13-21].

Mary, as the mother of Jesus the King, is the foremost intercessor to the King. Thus, we can pray to her to intercede for us.


#12

[quote="Tkehrein, post:1, topic:293916"]
Hello! My name is Tyler and i have grown up in a local "non-denominational" Church and recently began finding that i like a lot of catholic traditions like the Rosary and Lent along with just the Catholic Creed. Now in any church have been to they of course do not pray to Mary and was wondering if you all could help enlighten me on the topic of Mary and why catholics believe in prayer to her. While i don't see myself fully converting to catholicism due to the fact that i believe in the priesthood of all believers i do find many of the catholic traditions very interesting. Thank you!

[/quote]

We Catholics believe in the Communion of Saints- which includes the Faithful on earth, the souls in purgatory and the saints in heaven. When our friends and relatives die, that is not the end of them. Of course we can pray to God for our own concerns but it helps to have friends praying for us. Sometimes, because of our unworthiness we may not pray as well as we should so we ask others to pray for us. The saints in heaven, which includes the greatest saint of all, the Blessed Virgin Mary, are our friends who can better plead for us that we can for ourselves.


#13

[quote="mab23, post:8, topic:293916"]
FIXED!!!

Mary definitely has an integral role in Jesus's life and message

not to mention as Catholics we strive to have a personal relationship with Jesus , but we also want to know about his Family and Friends and ask for their help and look to them as examples of Christs teaching through their acts in their lives , and use them as role models, and of course ask for their intercession with prayer, just like it says in the bible

may you find your way Home fellow Christian :D

[/quote]

Worship is not an inappropriate term. As part of the Anglican wedding vows they couple speaks of worshipping one another. remember the old term used in addressing clergymen: your worship,


#14

[quote="Cor_Ignis, post:10, topic:293916"]
Well, we Catholics actually believe in the priesthood of every baptized person. As long as the person, at any age even if they are too little to understand it yet, has been baptized in the Name of the Father, and the Son and the Holy Spirit by a ministerial priest (or any other person in case of emergency), that person becomes a prophet, a king and a priest. The person can also get baptized by desire if it can't get baptized or by martyrdom. The priesthood of the ministerial priests (the ones that can celebrate Mass and administer the Sacraments) is different than the royal priesthood every baptized shares.

Sorry for going off topic, but felt the need to point that out. Now, on topic stuff: We believe in the prayer to the Blessed Virgin Mary because we really see her as our true Mother and the most powerful intercessor (even if Jesus is the only mediator between God and man, she prays for us just as you can pray for your beloved ones, so we ask for her intercession), since she being the Mother of God, her Son can't deny anything she asks for. Jesus on the Cross presented her to John as his Mother, and in that sign He presents her to all of us as our Mother. As our Mother she loves all of us and would do anything to have our souls saved and help us avoid sin. Also, she is mediator for all graces, and has claimed that she will not deny anything that is asked to her when praying the Holy Rosary (as long as it's not something that goes against the Will of God, of course; this was a promise of Rosary she left in an apparition).

Of course, we don't worship her, as we clearly know she is not God and is no greater than her Son Jesus Christ, but we venerate her as the Queen of all saints, and know that every prayer we do to her is also done to her Son.

She is also one of the greatest mysteries of the Catholic faith, as she apparently chose that the apostles and preachers of her time should not talk about her but only tell the necessary and most essential stuff, so that's why the Bible tells almost NOTHING about her, However, she is mentioned since the first book of the Old Testament (she is the woman who God says will step on the serpent's head) and is mentioned in the Apocalypse, too (she is the woman robed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars). Everything we currently know about Mary has been slowly discovered with the light of the Holy Spirit through the centuries, but due to the highness she was elevated to, we will never know everything about her.

There's a lot that can be said about her, the most perfect creature of all: She was conceived without the original sin by the omnipotence of God (this is called the dogma of the Immaculate Conception), stayed a virgin all her life and never met sin, and this was because the Mother of the Christ had to be a totally pure creature. There's a lot that you can investigate about her in official Catholic media, many saints had written about her (some of the most recommended readings are "True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary" by St. Louis-Marie Grignion de Montfort and "The Glories of Mary" by St. Alphonsus Maria de Liguori). There has also been multiple apparitions of her through history, always leaving a message, and there's even an image of herself that she left in one of the apparitions and no man painted it, Our Lady of Guadalupe who appeared in Mexico (the image she left is of her but with Mexican facial features and skin color, and that image has been studied several times by scientists and found out to be something impossible for a human being to paint it the way it was at the time she appeared). Get to truly know her and you will fall in love. She, together with Jesus, is my best friend. Sorry for the lengthy reply. Blessings!

[/quote]

We do “worship” her in that we adore her as a loyal son adores his mother. In a way, the term “Mother of God” is an unfortunate term, as it is not an exact translation of the Greek term Theotokos.


#15

[quote="RobbyS, post:13, topic:293916"]
Worship is not an inappropriate term. As part of the Anglican wedding vows they couple speaks of worshipping one another. remember the old term used in addressing clergymen: your worship,

[/quote]

This is exactly right.

The world Worship means giving someone the level of respect that they are due by right.

God is due the worship of adoration. As the creator and redeemer of the universe, adoration is his by right.

As the pinnacle of all God's creation - the creature who is higher than all the saints and angels, the Queen of Heaven and Earth - Mary is due the worship of veneration and honor, but not he worship of adoration.

The problem is that we have let non-Catholics control the conversation. We have let non-Catholics tell us what worship is. We do worship Mary, but the worship we give her is fundamentally different from the worship we give God.

Worship is not an inappropriate term. There are several kinds of worship, but Fundamenatlis non-denomininationalism has bullied Catholicism to the point where we don't even understand what the word worship means, and can no longer defend our own practices.

-Tim-


#16

[quote="RobbyS, post:14, topic:293916"]
We do “worship” her in that we adore her as a loyal son adores his mother. In a way, the term “Mother of God” is an unfortunate term, as it is not an exact translation of the Greek term Theotokos.

[/quote]

The term adoration, as how I understand it as a Catholic, means to recon and venerate someone or something as a divinity.

Also, she is addressed as the Mother of God because by becoming the Mother of of the humanity of our Lord Jesus Christ, she also becomes the Mother of his divinity. Both natures of Jesus are inseparable one from the another.


#17

[quote="Cor_Ignis, post:16, topic:293916"]
The term adoration, as how I understand it as a Catholic, means to recon and venerate someone or something as a divinity.

Also, she is addressed as the Mother of God because by becoming the Mother of of the humanity of our Lord Jesus Christ, she also becomes the Mother of his divinity. Both natures of Jesus are inseparable one from the another.

[/quote]

The title Theotokos is actually more in order to stress that Jesus is the same subject or person as the Word, against the teachings of those who would divide the Christ into a man, Jesus, and the Word of God, working together in a synergistic relationship as God worked with the prophets.


#18

[quote="TimothyH, post:15, topic:293916"]
This is exactly right.

The world Worship means giving someone the level of respect that they are due by right.

God is due the worship of adoration. As the creator and redeemer of the universe, adoration is his by right.

As the pinnacle of all God's creation - the creature who is higher than all the saints and angels, the Queen of Heaven and Earth - Mary is due the worship of veneration and honor, but not he worship of adoration.

The problem is that we have let non-Catholics control the conversation. We have let non-Catholics tell us what worship is. We do worship Mary, but the worship we give her is fundamentally different from the worship we give God.

Worship is not an inappropriate term. There are several kinds of worship, but Fundamenatlis non-denomininationalism has bullied Catholicism to the point where we don't even understand what the word worship means, and can no longer defend our own practices.

-Tim-

[/quote]

-claps- thank you for that post, it opened my eyes, thanks to you, i could explain thinks about the Catholic faith better to my non-Catholic relatives, God bless you


#19

[quote="Cor_Ignis, post:16, topic:293916"]
The term adoration, as how I understand it as a Catholic, means to recon and venerate someone or something as a divinity.

Also, she is addressed as the Mother of God because by becoming the Mother of of the humanity of our Lord Jesus Christ, she also becomes the Mother of his divinity. Both natures of Jesus are inseparable one from the another.

[/quote]

Yes, I know, but Theotokos doe not mean “mother of God,” but something like “God-bearer.” which narrows to mean the human being through whom the 2nd person of the Blessed Trinity was made incarnate. Non-Catholics do not see the distinction, in part because they are Nestorians without knowing that, and second because their Trinitarianism is pretty vague in general, many of them holding to some variation of all the Christological heresies condemned by the Councils. So when they see “mother of God,” they think, well the Catholic Church she is a goddess who created the Second Person of the Holy Trinity. They think that we are like the Hindus, or even the Gnostics or other pagans.


#20

[quote="CountrySteve, post:2, topic:293916"]
actually just to point out, Catholics beleive in the Priesthood of all beleivers too, God bless

[/quote]

Amen. :thumbsup:

Shalom
God bless


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