Latest (9/1/14) Mike Gendron newsletter: Where to begin?

News from Evangelist Mike Gendron
** September 2014**

Pope: "Don’t Proselytize to be Happy"
In an interview published by the Argentine Weekly “Viva”, the pope listed his Top 10 Secrets for Happiness. One of them was quite shocking in view of the Great Commission given to the church by our Lord Jesus Christ. Pope Francis disagrees with the true Head of the Church in saying that we should not proselytize. He said we should respect others’ beliefs because “the worst thing of all is religious proselytism, which paralyzes.” The word “proselytize” means to try to convert somebody to a religious faith. The pope said “the church grows by attraction, not proselytizing.”

*Mike’s Comment: The pope’s church does indeed grow by attraction to its “smells and bells.” Catholicism has always appealed to the flesh with its pagan rituals, including the solemn worship of the Eucharist, the flowing priestly robes, the flicker of the candles, the smell of incense, the pomp and pageantry of idol worship, and sacrifices for the dead. The influence of the secular media also encourages the world to love the “humble” man in white who declares himself to be the “Vicar of Christ” and “Holy Father.” It is no wonder the Lord Jesus declared, “Woe to you, when all people speak well of you” (Luke 6:26). Why wouldn’t the world love this pope? He says atheists and homosexuals can follow their conscience into heaven. It is no wonder the pope says “the worst thing of all is religious proselytism.” He thinks everyone who has a conscience will make it through the pearly gates. *

*The Lord’s church does not even resemble the pope’s church. God’s Church is the body and bride of Christ. It is His purchased possession. It is the Church of the first-born, whose names are written in heaven (Heb. 12:23). This is the Church to which the Lord Jesus promises “the gates of hell shall not prevail against it”(Matt. 16:18). Every member of the Lord’s church has been evangelized with the glorious Gospel of grace. After they heard the word of truth and believed in the Lord Jesus, they were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, *who is the guarantee of their inheritance to the praise of His glory (Eph. 1:13-14). Every member has been born again as a new creation in Christ (2 Cor. 5:17). This is the only Church of which no one member can perish; they are safe in the hands of God for all eternity. The calling of God the Father, along with the continual intercession of God the Son, coupled with the sanctifying power of the Holy Spirit, protect all who have been divinely chosen. They joyfully proclaim the voice of the Good Shepherd so His lost sheep will hear and follow Him (John 10). They are not citizens of this world because they are only passing through on their way to heaven. This church will be presented without spot or blemish before the Father’s throne. To God be all glory, praise and honor!

There’s plenty of propaganda and misinformation in this one my friends so feel free to visit the link above and take a swing at any of the particulars.

I’ll start off with this one because it’s so badly yanked from context and even somewhat hypocritical of Gendron. To see what I mean about this hypocrisy look at my next post below, which is from Gendron’s previous newsletter and which I never got around to discussing with you. :blush: (Sorry…I’ve been pretty busy.)

What Pope Francis actually said was both true and wise.

[size=3]9. Don’t proselytize; respect others’ beliefs. “We can inspire others through witness so that one grows together in communicating. But the worst thing of all is religious proselytism, which paralyzes: ‘I am talking with you in order to persuade you,’ No. Each person dialogues, starting with his and her own identity. The church grows by attraction, not proselytizing,” the pope said

. We had this sort of topic for discussion a while back. Proselytizing vs. Missionary evangelization, and Michelle Arnold answers a question about it in What is the difference between evangelism and proselytism … all of which should speak to this “issue” from a Catholic perspective.

I would even go so far as to say that the Catholic Church more closely follows the great commission of Matthew 28:19-20 where Our Blessed Lord Jesus Christ tells us. "
[19] Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, [20] teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age." because we do indeed evangelize by teaching. Our RCIA classes are an excellent example of that. [/size]

Okay folks…pick your points and then refute as needed. Hopefully some of Gendron’s misguided followers will see this and realize why James 3:1 applies to him and why they need to get away from him.

Here’s what Gendron told his people last newsletter about how to proselytize us away from our faith.

ABC’s of Effective Witnessing to Catholics
Many of the 70 million Catholics in America were born into their religion and have never examined their faith through the lens of Scripture. From infancy they are taught that salvation comes through their church as they merit saving grace through the sacraments and perform religious rituals and good works to be justified and re-justified. Roman Catholicism is often called the plus religion because of what it has added to the Gospel of grace. Catholic salvation is based on Jesus plus Mary, faith plus works, grace plus merit, Scripture plus tradition and the blood of Jesus plus purgatory. Catholics do not know that any addition to the Gospel is a denial of the sufficiency of Christ (Heb. 7:25). Any addition to the Gospel also nullifies the saving grace of God, which is the only means by which God saves sinners (Romans 11:6). Catholics, who are victims of this deception, need to be evangelized with the true Gospel of grace.

As we witness to Catholics we must persevere with patience to untangle the sticky web of religious indoctrination that holds them captive (Col. 2:8). We must follow the instructions of Paul and “not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, and correcting opponents with gentleness.” We must pray for God to “grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth,” that they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, who holds them captive to do his will (2 Tim. 2:24-26).

The two most important biblical principles to remember as you witness are to: 1) establish Scripture as the supreme authority for truth (2 Tim. 3:15-17) and 2) proclaim the Lord Jesus as the all-sufficient Savior (Heb. 7:25; Acts 4:12).

Following are some other important biblical principles as you witness to Catholics:

Proclaim Jesus and His Word as the most trustworthy source for truth (John 14:6; 17:17; 18:37).

Discuss how sin has condemned every man under God’s righteous judgment (Rom. 3:10-18; Heb. 9:27; Rev. 20:14).

Show that the Scriptures are sufficient for knowing and understanding how to be saved (2 Tim. 3:15).

Define the Gospel and its divine power to save (Romans 1:16; 1 Cor. 15:1-4; Eph. 2:1-10).

Warn of the fatal consequences for anyone who teaches or believes a different gospel (Gal. 1:6- 9).

Show that no man or pope is infallible. Peter (who Catholics believe was their first pope) admitted he was wrong (Gal. 2:11-14).

Warn of the danger of following non-apostolic traditions (Mark 7:7-8, 13; Col. 2:8).

Explain the need to repent from what they have been doing to save themselves including the sacraments, the sacrifice of the mass, purgatory, indulgences, other mediators, good works and infant baptism. These nullify God’s grace and deny the finished and all-sufficient work of Christ.

Stay focused on the Gospel, avoid going off on tangents that are unrelated to salvation (1 Cor. 2:2).

Sow the imperishable seed of God’s Word with Gospel tracts (1 Pet 1:23).

Pray for their salvation (Rom. 10:1-4).

Remember that every sinner must repent and believe the Gospel to be saved (Mark 1:15). The only way to heaven is through Christ, and the only way to come to Christ is God’s way - with repentance and empty hands of faith.

(Cont’d)

Cradle Catholics should take note here that in that first paragraph he is targeting you and your children with the notion that you do not know either your Catholic faith or the Bible.:eek: I hope you have seen for yourself since you have been here on CAF that that is actually pretty far from the truth. The only real issue is that most of us have never been confronted by these types of a-C fundamentalists, (for which I guess we should thank God!) and so when one like this guy comes along, it can be unsettling and confusing.

Look at the points they will try to make and what verses of scripture they will use. One of the best ways to prepare for this is to take your Bible and look up the cited scriptures and read them all in context. which will give you more than ample capacity to handle them. Yanking passages and verses out of context is a common practice for n-C “witnessing” and in most cases you’ll find that when taken in context, the passage is far more “Catholic” than any of these people are willing to admit.:thumbsup: :rotfl:

Mike Gendron is an old hand at selective out-of-context quoting. He does the same to e-mails of Catholics that he publishes on his website. If you see an e-mail from a Catholic on his website and it doesn’t look quite right, that’s usually why.

The two most important biblical principles to remember as you witness are to: 1) establish Scripture as the supreme authority for truth (2 Tim. 3:15-17) and 2) proclaim the Lord Jesus as the all-sufficient Savior (Heb. 7:25; Acts 4:12).

BUZZ!!! MISQUOTE!!! THANK YOU FOR PLAYING!!! 2 Tim indicates that all scripture is USEFUL for teaching, etc. It is not EXCLUSIVE for teaching. A pencil is USEFUL for writing a letter, but that doesn’t mean I have to EXCLUSIVELY use a pencil.

Proclaim Jesus and His Word as the most trustworthy source for truth (John 14:6; 17:17; 18:37).

Absolutely. But, he erroneously equates the Word with the written word of the scriptures, which is impossible by John 1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Well, since the books of the scripture were written by human hands, they couldn’t have been the same Word, since humans didn’t exist until day 6 (whereas the Word had to exist beginning on day 1).

*Show that the Scriptures are sufficient for knowing and understanding how to be saved (2 Tim. 3:15).
*

BUZZ!! MISQUOTE AGAIN!! Again, useful, Paul never writes that scripture is the only source, only a useful source. Now, where is my pencil…

Warn of the danger of following non-apostolic traditions (Mark 7:7-8, 13; Col. 2:8).

Hmm… guess he missed a history lesson. Simple review of the earliest non-Biblical Christian writings easily shows that the beliefs of the earliest Christians were uniquely Catholic.

*Explain the need to repent from what they have been doing to save themselves including the sacraments, the sacrifice of the mass, purgatory, indulgences, other mediators, good works and infant baptism. These nullify God’s grace and deny the finished and all-sufficient work of Christ. *

sacraments/sacrifice of the Mass: "Unless you eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of Man, you have no life within you. John 6:53

Good works: “not everyone who cries out Lord Lord shall enter the kingdom, but only those who DO the will of my Father in Heaven” Matt 7:21 (see Matt 25 for examples in the parable of the sheep and goats)

and lastly…

Warn of the fatal consequences for anyone who teaches or believes a different gospel (Gal. 1:6- 9).

Like Mike Gendron?!?!?!?!

He is good at that isn’t he? :slight_smile: You would think that most of his followers would pick up on that since they are Sola Scriptura believers. One wonders why they have not…

BUZZ!!! MISQUOTE!!! THANK YOU FOR PLAYING!!! 2 Tim indicates that all scripture is USEFUL for teaching, etc. It is not EXCLUSIVE for teaching. A pencil is USEFUL for writing a letter, but that doesn’t mean I have to EXCLUSIVELY use a pencil.

Proclaim Jesus and His Word as the most trustworthy source for truth (John 14:6; 17:17; 18:37).

Absolutely. But, he erroneously equates the Word with the written word of the scriptures, which is impossible by John 1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Well, since the books of the scripture were written by human hands, they couldn’t have been the same Word, since humans didn’t exist until day 6 (whereas the Word had to exist beginning on day 1).

*Show that the Scriptures are sufficient for knowing and understanding how to be saved (2 Tim. 3:15).
*

BUZZ!! MISQUOTE AGAIN!! Again, useful, Paul never writes that scripture is the only source, only a useful source. Now, where is my pencil…

Warn of the danger of following non-apostolic traditions (Mark 7:7-8, 13; Col. 2:8).

Hmm… guess he missed a history lesson. Simple review of the earliest non-Biblical Christian writings easily shows that the beliefs of the earliest Christians were uniquely Catholic.

*Explain the need to repent from what they have been doing to save themselves including the sacraments, the sacrifice of the mass, purgatory, indulgences, other mediators, good works and infant baptism. These nullify God’s grace and deny the finished and all-sufficient work of Christ. *

sacraments/sacrifice of the Mass: "Unless you eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of Man, you have no life within you. John 6:53

Good works: “not everyone who cries out Lord Lord shall enter the kingdom, but only those who DO the will of my Father in Heaven” Matt 7:21 (see Matt 25 for examples in the parable of the sheep and goats)

and lastly…

Warn of the fatal consequences for anyone who teaches or believes a different gospel (Gal. 1:6- 9).

Like Mike Gendron?!?!?!?!Good points all Eric!:thumbsup:
I think he indeed fits the bill of your last point. Who REALLY Preaches “A Different Gospel”?

Gendron has a history of presenting mis-quotes and personal summaries of mis-qutoes of “fact”.

Gendron’s dedicates a section of his newletter to point out that the “Vatican Says Jews No Longer Chosen People”. Of the entire article, the author, and Gendron’s full conclusion are drawn from a single “quote” by a Bishop. Here is what is reported as being the Bishop’s actual words (compare to the actual words which will follow):

"We Christians cannot speak about the Promised Land for the Jewish people”, the synod’s document said. “There is no longer a chosen people. The concept of the promised land cannot be used as a base for the justification of the return of Jews to Israel and the displacement of Palestinians.” (Eliyokim Cohen of JewsNews “quoting” a “Vatican Official”, jewsnews.co.il/2014/08/03/vatican-representative-in-israel-declares-that-jews-no-longer-the-chosen-people/ )

Here’s the actual quote from the Bishop, along with a link to the entire report for context:

"On October 22, the synod fathers approved their “Message to the People of God.” At a press conference presenting the message, Archbishop Bustros was quoted as saying that “the Holy Scriptures cannot be used to justify the return of Jews to Israel and the displacement of the Palestinians, to justify the occupation by Israel of Palestinian lands … We Christians cannot speak of the ‘promised land’ as an exclusive right for a privileged Jewish people. This promise was nullified by Christ. There is no longer a chosen people—all men and women of all countries have become the chosen people.” Rabbi Rosen and other Jewish leaders denounced the archbishop’s comments. "
catholicworldreport.com/Item/510/the_cry_of_the_cross.aspx

Far be it from Gendron to let facts and Biblical testimony get in the way of a good story.

I was late getting this edited, but I wanted to point out the following about the Bishop’s actual words:

The Bishop’s words were not only skewed, misrepresented, partailly omited, and added-to by Mr. Cohen, but the actual quote is based on the Scriptural message that “…you are no longer Jew nor Greek, servant or free…” (Galatians 3:28). Yet Gendron accepts the misquote as Gospel Truth from Cohen, and accepts Cohen’s personal summary of what the Bishop ‘must have meant’ regardless of what the Bishop might actually have been saying (which is the same thing Paul said in Gal 3:28).

Mike Gendron is NOT a reliable source for truth.

Yeah, proselytism has taken on a negative connotation involving methods incompatible with the Gospel. See this footnote in a recent CDF document:
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20071203_nota-evangelizzazione_en.html#_ftn49

This Pope promulgated a massive exhortation on the need to evangelize and is always talking about making Jesus known to others. MG’s letters, if intentionally misleading, would be such an example of this kind of negative proselytism the Pope is rejecting.

Regarding atheists being saved, if I remember correctly, the Pope said that Jesus even redeemed them. Maybe MG is a Calvinist who believes only the elect have been redeemed, or some such thing.

In his encyclical Lumen Fidei, Pope Francis taught that salvation comes through faith and is inextricably tied to it. However, he also noted that for those who do not have faith yet, following an upright conscience can lead to faith.

[quote=Pope Francis, Lumen Fidei]Because faith is a way, it also has to do with the lives of those men and women who, though not believers, nonetheless desire to believe and continue to seek. To the extent that they are sincerely open to love and set out with whatever light they can find, they are already, even without knowing it, on the path leading to faith. They strive to act as if God existed, at times because they realize how important he is for finding a sure compass for our life in common or because they experience a desire for light amid darkness, but also because in perceiving life’s grandeur and beauty they intuit that the presence of God would make it all the more beautiful. Saint Irenaeus of Lyons tells how Abraham, before hearing God’s voice, had already sought him “in the ardent desire of his heart” and “went throughout the whole world, asking himself where God was to be found”, until “God had pity on him who, all alone, had sought him in silence”.[32] Any-one who sets off on the path of doing good to others is already drawing near to God, is already sustained by his help, for it is characteristic of the divine light to brighten our eyes whenever we walk towards the fullness of love.
[/quote]

From the Catholic perspective, this is of course nothing new. St. Robert Bellarmine answered Calvinists who argued the same thing as MG back around the time of the Reformation. They argued that if people didn’t have faith, that God had not provided for their salvation, and therefore they were not of the elect.

[quote=St. Robert Bellarmine]This argument only proves that not all people receive the help they need to believe and be converted immediately. It does not, however, prove that some people are deprived, absolutely speaking, of sufficient help for salvation. For the pagans to whom the Gospel has not yet been preached, can know from His creatures that God exists; then they can be stimulated by God, through His preventing grace, to believe in God, that He exists and that He is the rewarder of those who seek Him: and from such faith, they can be inspired, under the guidance and help of God, to pray and give alms and in this way obtain from God a still greater light of faith, which God will communicate to them, either by Himself or through angels or through men. De Gratis et Libero Aritrio, lib. 2, cap. 8
[/quote]

The fact that MG rejects the idea that it is possible for anyone to be saved, even those who have not yet believed or have other disorders or crosses, I think is a result of his Calvinism, a man made system that minimizes the justice, mercy, and love of God.

Why does he get caught up on this point? Doesn’t he believe that only Christians can be saved? Especially as a Calvinist, doesn’t he believe that only that limited group that has been atoned for and who receive the irresistible grace of salvation are the chosen people?

From what I understand, we believe the Jews are the Chosen People in the sense of Romans 11, which deals with God promising to take away their sins and that, when the fullness of the Gentiles has come in, all Israel will be saved, but not that there is any longer an abiding supernatural claim to particular territories in the Middle East (that doesn’t mean that they don’t necessarily have political claims to that territory, but from the Christian perspective, this argument should not be tied to any abiding divine privilege). This seems to be what the Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem was saying.

Good question, and good point. I wonder if MG would do us the honor of detailing his thoughts about Jews and their priveledged rights to a “promised land”? MG, are you reading this, and would you care to comment?

He gets caught up on this point simply because it’s easy to cut up and use as a cherry picked quote for shock value. I get all of MG’s newsletters as well, and find myself imagining him sitting in a room by himself scouring public quotes any Catholic makes that might make some sort of good copy. In his newsletters, he has a section where he posts letters from readers, and it always seems that the ones from “Catholics” are bitter and mean and, for lack of a better word, stupid. He can print all those and say “See, those Catholics need ME, they need ME to give them the gospel, so if you’re reading this, support ME and everything I do.” What you don’t see are the letters from those of us who are educated in our faith, or his debates with Catholics where he got drug behind the woodshed and given the business. I see MG as a very narcissitic person, one who has taken to “Preachin the Gospel” because it pays the bills, not so much because he was called or felt led to do so.

I’ve already sent him and his protege Jason personal invitations to CAF to discuss their thoughts with us, and both have declined. I’ve said this before, and it’s true, that we’d be all over them like a pack of wild dogs on a three legged cat, and they’d probably get bombarded and probably overwhelmed with posts, but if they’re going to talk trash, they should at least have the guts to come here and talk it to our face, but they’d rather not. They’d rather guerilla evangelize, and go after those who don’t know their faith as well and lead them astray and not deal with those of us who know the faith and could easily put them in their place.

Which would be fine so long as everyone abides by the Forum Rules & Guidelines. :compcoff:

You have to stare in amazement at someone who feels the need to lie to convince others to listen to him. Especially for someone who claims to follow the Savior who proclaimed that He IS the Truth.

Arrrgggghhh!! That man!! :rolleyes: Mike Gendron is such a:cool: doofus.:shrug:
To start with, there is a BIG difference between evangelism & proselyting. (My Free Methodist grandmother & her dear friend Teresa loved & served Our Lord, & neither one ever saw it necessary to try to convince the other that she was “not a Christian”. In fact, they would have both spit tacks at the thought that the other was anything else but a faithful believer. And that was before World War One, for goodness sake!!)

I will get into this more later…

The pope’s church does indeed grow by attraction to its “smells and bells.” Catholicism has always appealed to the flesh with its pagan rituals, including the solemn worship of the Eucharist, the flowing priestly robes, the flicker of the candles, the smell of incense, the pomp and pageantry of idol worship, and sacrifices for the dead.

Typically, when shopping for a car, or an appliance, or the like, I tend to be turned off by a salesman who spends the primary amount of time bashing the competition. In the quote above, there is so much misrepresentation as to make the rest unnecessary to read.

Blast away, my Catholic siblings in Christ, but I think prayer may be more effective.

Jon

There’s no question of praying for him Jon. Without that, all other efforts are of absolutely no value at all.

Being, as I am, a Knight of the Immaculate as founded by St. Maximilian Kolbe, we pray the following version of the Miraculous Medal prayer every day and in my case sometimes many times a day,.

O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee and for all those who do not have recourse to thee especially the enemies of Holy Church and all those recommended to thee.

Even so, it is only wise to expose this kind of specious anti-Catholic propaganda with the purpose of helping Catholics not to be deceived and to assist them in dealing with it when confronted by it.

Please people, bashing Gendron himself is neither charitable nor even helpful to anyone.

We must look closely at what he says and simply counter it with the truth which will always be far more effective as people see the contrasts between the facts and what the scriptures actually say vs what Gendron puts forth.

No one likes being deceived or discovering that their source is less than trustworthy and that is (hoping & praying…) what our analysis and refutations will (by the help of the Holy Spirit) do.

I happened to enjoy this one (on Rick Warren), and I’m actually thrilled that MG posted the youtube video of EWTN’s interview with him!

Is Rick Warren a Closet Catholic?

Maybe. Maybe he is beginning to see the beauty in Christ’s Church and will convert someday. Or maybe he is just respectful of Catholics and looks at the Catholic Faith objectively instead of through a tainted lens.

The Eternal Word Television Network, a Catholic station conducted an interview with Rick Warren that reveals how much he embraces the Roman Catholic religion and his push for ecumenical unity.

Great! He’s off to a good start because Christ and the Apostles and the Christians of the subsequent centuries ALSO pushed for unity (Jn 10:16, Eph 4:3-6, Jn 17:17-23, 1Cor 1:10, and a host of others, Cyprian, Tertullian, Hillary, up through today).

During the interview, Warren praises all the Catholic mystics and the Pope over and over again. At the 24:20 mark, Warren says “he watches EWTN more than any Christian channel.” He said if you don’t understand the roots of your faith you’re like a tumbleweed.

And I would have to agree with him, and I would think MG would agree with this as well. If you don’t understand the roots of your Faith, you are liable to be tossed about anywhere and everywhere…kinda like a ship tossed on the ocean or a house built on sand rather than on a firm foundation, right MG? And what’s wrong with praising the efforts of the Pope and mystics? Is it wrong to find the good work that God can accomplish, even in sinners, and recognize that?

One of his favorite shows on EWTN is “Chaplet of the Divine Mercy.” After a stressful day, he comes home and watches it with his wife Kay. He said “I sit back, relax and worship.” He said one episode was a Catholic prayer service in front of the Monstrance.

Again, this sounds wonderful. Here is a man who wants to worship God through prayer, asking God repeatedly to have mercy on him, and on the whole world. Sounds like he is repeating the beautiful Scripture passages of Psalm 51, Mt 15:22, Mk 10:47-48, Lk 16:24, 18:13, 38-39. And all the better while looking upon a monstrance which contains the very Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Savior, at least according to Christ (Mt 26:26, Mk 14:22, Lk 22:19, 1Cor 11:24).

About the 25:30 mark, the interviewer says he was struck by three images in Warren’s office - Mother Teresa, Martin Luther King and Billy Graham. Warren said the only one missing was Pope John Paul “because those four people were the greatest influences on the 20th century” and he has tried to learn lessons from each of them.

Again, this is great that a man can recognize God’s Work through His people and try to emulate their living according to God’s Will and learn how to love through the Christian witness of those people. That’s reall neat.

Watch the interview here.

You bet I will!!

Absolutely agree. As I said, it didn’t take much reading to find misrepresentations (speaking charitably) in his comments about the Catholic Church.

Jon

Thanks Jon. I am always glad you are here with us.:slight_smile:

Now, let’s have a look at some of the other stuff in this current newsletter of his.
In Mike’s remarks about the assumption of Mary…

Pope Francis began his homily with these words, “In union with the whole Church, we celebrate the Assumption of Our Lady, body and soul, into the glory of heaven. Mary’s Assumption shows us our own destiny as God’s adoptive children and members of the body of Christ.” He referred to the great sign" of a woman clothed in the sun and crowned by 12 stars in Rev 12:1 as Mary enthroned in glory beside her divine Son. Read more.

Mike’s Comment: This misinterpretation of Revelation 12 is consistent with many other misinterpretations of Scripture by the RCC. The woman referred to in Rev. 12:1 cannot be Mary because she was never persecuted, never fled into the wilderness and was never cared for and protected for 1260 days. That description does fit the nation of Israel and the 12 stars would represent her 12 tribes. The Apostle John’s use of the term “woman” for Israel is consistent with its frequent reference to Israel in the Old Testament.

You have to wonder how someone who makes such a big deal of their Bible knowledge can make such a statement. If Mary was never persecuted then exactly what was the flight into Egypt all about? Furthermore, how does one discount the persecution of having one’s only son falsely accused and then brutally abused and executed as Mary did? The suffering and trauma she endured had to be terrible indeed, especially after having been warned by the prophet Simeon at the presentation that “And thy own soul a sword shall pierce” when Jesus was just a newborn.

And, although Matthew’s Gospel doesn’t tell us exactly how long Jesus, Mary, and Joseph remained in Egypt, I imagine that if someone checked it might be the length of time that John speaks of in Revelation. (Anyone wanna look into that for us?)

I have always thought that, like many other passages of scripture, and especially prophetic and/or apocalyptic ones, they have multiple meanings and fulfillments just as so many of the messianic prophecies cited in the New Testament did.:shrug:

Finally, after so many times exposing Mike Gendron’s misinterpretations of various scriptures, I kinda had to laugh at his polemic [FONT=Verdana][size=3]"consistent with many other misinterpretations of Scripture by the RCC" . It just strikes me as ironically funny. :rolleyes:[/size][/FONT]

Regarding atheists being saved, if I remember correctly, the Pope said that Jesus even redeemed them. Maybe MG is a Calvinist who believes only the elect have been redeemed, or some such thing.

To briefly address this point, MG is using a linguistic difference to make it seem like Pope Francis said something that he didn’t say. A lot of my fellow non-Catholic Christians use the word ‘redemption’ interchangeably with ‘salvation’. It’s a loose usage of the term in a way that is deceptive to MG’s audience, many of whom take him at his word. (Using the intricacies of the English language & mis-using theological terms can get a lot of people confused. It is very bad form at the least, & outright lying at the best–something that Gendron does a lot of the time…)

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