Latest Snowden revelations spark anger at European commission


#1

So, is Joaquín Almunia, vice-president of EU, suspected of being a terrorist? :hmmm:

Is that why the USA and Britain are spying on him - to protect us from EU vice-president Joaquin Almunia blowing up sumthin' ? :p

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/12/20/1387570390044/Joaquin-Almunia-008.jpg

From theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/20/snowden-revelations-almunia-anger-european-commission

Latest Snowden revelations spark anger at European commission

The latest disclosures from the Snowden files provoked exasperation at the European commission, with officials saying they intended to press the British and American governments for answers about the targeting of one its most senior officials.

Reacting shortly after an EU summit had finished in Brussels, the commission said disclosures about the targeting of Joaquín Almunia, a vice-president with responsibility for competition policy, was "not the type of behaviour that we expect from strategic partners, let alone from our own member states".

A spokesman added: "This piece of news follows a series of other revelations which, as we clearly stated in the past, if proven true, are unacceptable and deserve our strongest condemnation."


#2

He hit the bull's eye:

"These programs were never about terrorism: they're about economic spying, social control, and diplomatic manipulation. They're about power."

Here's a longer quote from theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/17/edward-snowden-letter-brazilian-people

Edward Snowden's 'open letter to the Brazilian people' – in full
Read the NSA whistleblower's letter, which has been published by the Folha de S Paulo newspaper

...The NSA and other spying agencies tell us that for our own "safety" — for Dilma's [Brazilian President] "safety," for Petrobras' [Brazilian oil company] "safety" — they have revoked our right to privacy and broken into our lives. And they did it without asking the public in any country, even their own.

Today, if you carry a cell phone in Sao Paolo, the NSA can and does keep track of your location...

American Senators tell us that Brazil should not worry, because this is not "surveillance," it's "data collection." They say it is done to keep you safe. They're wrong. There is a huge difference between legal programs, legitimate spying, legitimate law enforcement — where individuals are targeted based on a reasonable, individualized suspicion — and these programs of dragnet mass surveillance that put entire populations under an all-seeing eye and save copies forever. These programs were never about terrorism: they're about economic spying, social control, and diplomatic manipulation. They're about power.


#3

And the other nations are not up to similar 'info. collecting' given the means and opportunity?? :rolleyes:


#4

[quote="Mount_Carmel, post:3, topic:348831"]
And the other nations are not up to similar 'info. collecting' given the means and opportunity?? :rolleyes:

[/quote]

Geez, that sounds a lot like my father, who, while cheating on my mother, was totally paranoid and constantly searching for some clue or evidence to prove that my mother was cheating on him. :rolleyes:

That's the typical excuse of criminals and low-lives everywhere: "everybody else is doing it".

They just don't get it, that not everybody else is doing it.


#5

This whole thing makes me wonder why they are collecting all this data for? I fear that at some point in the near future, when they have all the info they feel they need, then things are going to hit the fan in society very quickly and probably when no one expects it!!!

And if they have every tid bit of info on everyone, there will be nowhere to hide or anything anyone can do about it...this is pretty scary to think about!


#6

I agree 100%. There’s some poetic justice in this - we will be spied on, persecuted, imprisoned and killed by our own government, because we as citizens failed to stand up against our government and we failed to put an end to this madness.

This is so classic. Dictatorship is brewing in America, and all dictatorships kill and mass murder their own citizens. Hitler killed Germans, Lenin Stalin etc killed Russians, Pol Pot killed Cambodians, and our own government will kill Americans. :shrug:

And I already expect some CAF posters to come and ridicule us - they should wake up and smell the nano thermite. Three (3) buildings were demolished by nano thermite and other means on 9/11, and the nano thermite wasn’t planted by the Arab terrorists. But if you ask most people, they don’t even have a clue what happened on 9/11, including the collapse of WTC7 and the presence of incendiary nano thermite, molten steel, and tiny molten/re-solidified iron droplets in the WTC rubble - even though jet fuel cannot melt steel.

The rogue elements in our own government and intelligence community already killed a bunch of Americans with their false flag operation on 9/11 - so why shouldn’t we expect more to come?


#7

You do realize the US hasn’t confirmed much of anything Snowden has released, nor is it corroborated by anyone else. Which is how it will always be in intel. I love how people go off and running with these “revelations” and meanwhile, the US and intelligence community don’t confirm any of it. They just do their jobs.

So basically, it is Snowden’s word against Obama’s. Which liar is more honest?


#8

[quote="mikekle, post:5, topic:348831"]
This whole thing makes me wonder why they are collecting all this data for? I fear that at some point in the near future, when they have all the info they feel they need, then things are going to hit the fan in society very quickly and probably when no one expects it!!!

And if they have every tid bit of info on everyone, there will be nowhere to hide or anything anyone can do about it...this is pretty scary to think about!

[/quote]

I completely agree with you.

[quote="OurLadyPray4US, post:6, topic:348831"]
I agree 100%. There's some poetic justice in this - we will be spied on, persecuted, imprisoned and killed by our own government, because we as citizens failed to stand up against our government and we failed to put an end to this madness.

This is so classic. Dictatorship is brewing in America, and all dictatorships kill and mass murder their own citizens. Hitler killed Germans, Lenin Stalin etc killed Russians, Pol Pot killed Cambodians, and our own government will kill Americans. :shrug:

And I already expect some CAF posters to come and ridicule us - they should wake up and smell the nano thermite. Three (3) buildings were demolished by nano thermite and other means on 9/11, and the nano thermite wasn't planted by the Arab terrorists. But if you ask most people, they don't even have a clue what happened on 9/11, including the collapse of WTC7 and the presence of incendiary nano thermite, molten steel, and tiny molten/re-solidified iron droplets in the WTC rubble - even though jet fuel cannot melt steel.

The rogue elements in our own government and intelligence community already killed a bunch of Americans with their false flag operation on 9/11 - so why shouldn't we expect more to come?

[/quote]

I also completely agree with you except for the thing about the 9/11 terrorist attacks. I do not believe that it was an attack by our government on our own soil. I have never seen any solid evidence that would indicate it is true so I don't believe it. But then again, I must admit that I've never gone looking for the evidence either.


#9

[quote="HappyCatholic01, post:7, topic:348831"]
You do realize the US hasn't confirmed much of anything Snowden has released, nor is it corroborated by anyone else. Which is how it will always be in intel. I love how people go off and running with these "revelations" and meanwhile, the US and intelligence community don't confirm any of it. They just do their jobs.

So basically, it is Snowden's word against Obama's. Which liar is more honest?

[/quote]

I understand that Edward Snowden is going to testify in front of a European Parliament inquiry pretty soon, a serious investigation by the European Parliament is in process, and we are going to find out, eventually, who is a liar and who is telling the truth - quote from theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/17/merkel-compares-nsa-stasi-obama :

Snowden is to testify on the NSA scandal to a European parliament inquiry next month, to the anger of Washington which is pressuring the EU to stop the testimony.

Senior Brussels officials say the EU is struggling to come up with a coherent and effective response to the revelations of mass US and British surveillance of electronic communication in Europe, but that the disclosure that Merkel's mobile had been monitored was a decisive moment.

A draft report by a European parliament inquiry into the affair, being presented on Wednesday and obtained by the Guardian, says there has to be a discussion about the legality of the NSA's operations and also of the activities of European intelligence agencies.

The report drafted by Claude Moraes, the British Labour MEP heading the inquiry, says "we have received substantial evidence that the operations by intelligence services in the US, UK, France and Germany are in breach of international law and European law".

I understand that European Commission officials are also going to investigate the specific case of EU vice-president Joaquín Almunia, they are going to press the British and American governments to reveal the truth regarding this specific new allegation that EU vice-president Joaquín Almunia was victim of spying by the NSA and GCHQ, respectively - quote again from The Guardian article:

"This piece of news follows a series of other revelations which, as we clearly stated in the past, if proven true, are unacceptable and deserve our strongest condemnation."

However, are you suggesting that Snowden's allegations are fairy tales, and world leaders have been overreacting to bogus stories and fake news revealed by him? :confused:

Was Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff overreacting when she was so outraged by the NSA political and economic espionage directed at her cabinet and at Brazilian oil company Petrobras, that she cancelled an official visit to the White House?

Was German Chancellor Angela Merkel overreacting when she had a heated exchange with American President Obama, comparing NSA to the infamous former East German STASI?

See here washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/17/brazil-snubs-obama-refuses-wh-state-dinner/?page=all

Brazil snubs Obama by refusing White House state-dinner honor

In an unprecedented snub to President Obama, Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff has canceled her official state visit to the White House scheduled for next month, angered by revelations of U.S. spying on her and on major Brazilian state institutions.
The White House released a statement Tuesday saying that both presidents “agreed to postpone” Ms. Rousseff’s visit, scheduled for Oct. 23. But it is the Brazilian leader who is incensed about the National Security Agency’s surveillance of her and her top aides and a Brazilian energy company.
The two presidents spoke by phone for 20 minutes Monday night, but Mr. Obama’s explanations to Ms. Rousseff about the spying were not enough to prevent her from canceling the trip.
The Brazilian government said that “given the proximity of the scheduled state visit to Washington — and in the absence of a timely investigation of the incident, with corresponding explanations and the commitment to cease the interception activities,” Ms. Rousseff could not proceed with the trip.

See also theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/17/merkel-compares-nsa-stasi-obama

Merkel compared NSA to Stasi in heated encounter with Obama
German chancellor furious after revelations US intelligence agency listened in on her personal mobile phone

In an angry exchange with Barack Obama, Angela Merkel has compared the snooping practices of the US with those of the Stasi, the ubiquitous and all-powerful secret police of the communist dictatorship in East Germany, where she grew up.

The German chancellor also told the US president that America's National Security Agency cannot be trusted because of the volume of material it had allowed to leak to the whistleblower Edward Snowden, according to the New York Times.

Livid after learning from Der Spiegel magazine that the Americans were listening in to her personal mobile phone, Merkel confronted Obama with the accusation: "This is like the Stasi."

The newspaper also reported that Merkel was particularly angry that, based on the disclosures, "the NSA clearly couldn't be trusted with private information, because they let Snowden clean them out."


#10

[quote="Holly3278, post:8, topic:348831"]

I also completely agree with you except for the thing about the 9/11 terrorist attacks. I do not believe that it was an attack by our government on our own soil. I have never seen any solid evidence that would indicate it is true so I don't believe it. But then again, I must admit that I've never gone looking for the evidence either.

[/quote]

Let me help with some evidence :)

See this video on youtube: youtube.com/watch?v=slEM9aaLkYA

Here's a partial transcript:

I am Major General Albert Stubblebine ...was responsible for all of the Army's strategic intelligence forces around the world... I had responsibility for the signals intelligence, photo intelligence, counterintelligence, human intelligence. They all belonged to me in my last assignment. ...So I have had a lot of experience, looking at photographs.

OK, so on September 11, 2001, what hit the Pentagon?

I don't know exactly what hit it, but I do know, from the photographs that I have analyzed and looked at very, very carefully, it was not an airplane.

...I never believed that it was an airplane, since I looked at the photographs. Up until that time that I looked at the photographs, I accepted what was being said. After I looked at it, NO WAY!

Please watch the video - I was lazy to transcribe it all.

For me, personally, since I am a specialist in chemistry (PhD in chemistry, also did some nano science research), it was the chemical evidence that convinced me beyond a shadow of a doubt, that we have been lied to. Here's the chemical evidence - Major General Albert Stubblebine also mentions part of it, in the youtube video above:

  1. Jet fuel and office fires cannot melt steel - they do not burn hot enough.

This is a basic scientific fact, an undisputed scientific fact grounded in physical chemistry and thermodynamics.

  1. Molten steel was all over at the WTC.

Tons of molten steel were pouring out of one WTC building, before it collapsed. Tiny molten and re-solidified iron droplets were prevalent in the rubble of the WTC.

This indicated foul play - somebody rigged the WTC complex with an incendiary material called "thermite" - a mixture of aluminum and iron oxide, which will burn hot enough to generate molten iron and melt steel beams, as well as it generated the tiny (100 micrometer and smaller diameter) molten/re-solidified iron droplets which were also found in abundance in the WTC rubble.

If you watch this youtube video youtube.com/watch?v=HVFwkAMd2-k , you will see abundant evidence of molten steel and the pictures of the mentioned iron droplets.

You will also see this in the video:

  1. The NIST (National Institute on Standards and Technology) official in charge of 9/11 investigation lying on camera, denying the molten steel.

Why is he lying? Because he knows full well that molten steel is proof that incendiary material was used at the WTC.

  1. Finally, the smoking gun evidence - a sophisticated nano composite material with incendiary properties, called "nano thermite", consisting of aluminum nano particles and iron oxide nano particles suspended in a solid gel matrix, proven to be present in the rubble of the WTC.

We need to understand this: any amateur chemist can prepare a rudimentary form of thermite mixture, by mixing aluminum powder with iron oxide powder, in his garage.

But this is not what was found at the WTC.

The WTC was rigged with an extremely sophisticated high-tech form of thermite, called "nano thermite", which is quite simply not available to mere mortals.

This nano thermite was not prepared by amateur terrorists, or Arab terrorists in a cave in Afghanistan.

This nano thermite came from our own military-industrial complex, from the USA's own weapons labs, or perhaps from another highly advanced country's weapons labs.


#11

Even Merkel is now comparing the NSA to the East German Stasi. And a former CIA Director wants Snowden hanged. Still think you're living in the Land Of The Free And The Home Of Brave, or is it an Orwellian nightmare, only missing the mass arrests, which surely must be on the horizon. And it all supposedly started because we had to keep tabs on who had ties to Al-Qaeda. But major news sources are even telling the world now that the US is increasingly cozying up to Wahhabist fanatics in the name of regime change.


#12

We are discussing folks and organisations who are akin to the pharisees and sadducces of Jesus’ time, and Jesus had many a run in with them for being hypocrites and villiains; there are few white knights amongst those who exercise high power and influence, regrettably.


#13

[quote="OurLadyPray4US, post:10, topic:348831"]
Let me help with some evidence :)

See this video on youtube: youtube.com/watch?v=slEM9aaLkYA

Here's a partial transcript:

I am Major General Albert Stubblebine ...was responsible for all of the Army's strategic intelligence forces around the world... I had responsibility for the signals intelligence, photo intelligence, counterintelligence, human intelligence. They all belonged to me in my last assignment. ...So I have had a lot of experience, looking at photographs.

OK, so on September 11, 2001, what hit the Pentagon?

I don't know exactly what hit it, but I do know, from the photographs that I have analyzed and looked at very, very carefully, it was not an airplane.

...I never believed that it was an airplane, since I looked at the photographs. Up until that time that I looked at the photographs, I accepted what was being said. After I looked at it, NO WAY!

Please watch the video - I was lazy to transcribe it all.

For me, personally, since I am a specialist in chemistry (PhD in chemistry, also did some nano science research), it was the chemical evidence that convinced me beyond a shadow of a doubt, that we have been lied to. Here's the chemical evidence - Major General Albert Stubblebine also mentions part of it, in the youtube video above:

  1. Jet fuel and office fires cannot melt steel - they do not burn hot enough.

This is a basic scientific fact, an undisputed scientific fact grounded in physical chemistry and thermodynamics.

  1. Molten steel was all over at the WTC.

Tons of molten steel were pouring out of one WTC building, before it collapsed. Tiny molten and re-solidified iron droplets were prevalent in the rubble of the WTC.

This indicated foul play - somebody rigged the WTC complex with an incendiary material called "thermite" - a mixture of aluminum and iron oxide, which will burn hot enough to generate molten iron and melt steel beams, as well as it generated the tiny (100 micrometer and smaller diameter) molten/re-solidified iron droplets which were also found in abundance in the WTC rubble.

If you watch this youtube video youtube.com/watch?v=HVFwkAMd2-k , you will see abundant evidence of molten steel and the pictures of the mentioned iron droplets.

You will also see this in the video:

  1. The NIST (National Institute on Standards and Technology) official in charge of 9/11 investigation lying on camera, denying the molten steel.

Why is he lying? Because he knows full well that molten steel is proof that incendiary material was used at the WTC.

  1. Finally, the smoking gun evidence - a sophisticated nano composite material with incendiary properties, called "nano thermite", consisting of aluminum nano particles and iron oxide nano particles suspended in a solid gel matrix, proven to be present in the rubble of the WTC.

We need to understand this: any amateur chemist can prepare a rudimentary form of thermite mixture, by mixing aluminum powder with iron oxide powder, in his garage.

But this is not what was found at the WTC.

The WTC was rigged with an extremely sophisticated high-tech form of thermite, called "nano thermite", which is quite simply not available to mere mortals.

This nano thermite was not prepared by amateur terrorists, or Arab terrorists in a cave in Afghanistan.

This nano thermite came from our own military-industrial complex, from the USA's own weapons labs, or perhaps from another highly advanced country's weapons labs.

[/quote]

I agree, I have seen far too many qualified people say the 'official account' of 9-11 could not possibly have happened.

Im not sure of why it was done though, Id love to know this, but have a feeling it was the start of something much larger, but the Govt has to first make sure the public has no way to fight back, thus the attempt to create new gun control laws lately, whatever they are planning is going to be bad for the public!

I dont understand why a nations leadership cant just be content with a happy population, why do all dictatorships want to kill off and torture their people? this makes no sense! Especially the US, they have ALOT of people going to work each day and paying taxes, why would they want to disrupt that and kill off a majority of these people? But I guess I do not see the big picture and do not know all they do, thats the only thing I can think of anyway.


#14

First off, Major General Bert Stubblebine retired in 1984. He does not have access to any more information about 911 than anyone else. His opinion is, well, his opinion.

Second. It is pretty obvious what hit the towers and it was airplanes.

Third. This is way off topic


#15

I hope that something good will come out of this scandal, but who knows… I agree with you that there are few white knights in high power.

At a minimum, Snowden was totally right when he said that this spying is not about terrorism, but rather about economic spying, social control, and diplomatic manipulation.

This spying is about raw power and lawlessness, and I do not doubt that more innocent American citizens are finding themselves punished by the powers that be, every day.

We are not experiencing yet mass arrests and mass murders, just a lot of strange “accidents”, i.e. assassinations of Americans staged as accidents.

The question is, do we have the will to fight back and rein in the NSA, the CIA, and our own government. We will need a mass awakening of ordinary Americans to what’s going on, otherwise we are not going to succeed.

I’m afraid many Americans still believe that something like Nazi Germany can never happen here. But it’s already happening, just ask CIA whistleblower Susan Lindauer, who was arrested under the Patriot Act, after 9/11, and held in secret prisons, on secret charges, secret evidence, with no judge, no trial, and no hearing. See a long video with Susan Lindauer here youtube.com/watch?v=G43zl4fzDQg , and a short video here youtube.com/watch?v=GnCIVeX0Ukc


#16

Snowden basically stole everything the NSA had. This is way beyond what can be described as a “scandal.” It is the worse spying crime in US history.


#17

According to the NYT,

Merkel was particularly angry that, based on the disclosures, “the NSA clearly couldn’t be trusted with private information, because they let Snowden clean them out.”


#18

[quote="OurLadyPray4US, post:17, topic:348831"]
According to the NYT,
Merkel was particularly angry that, based on the disclosures, "the NSA clearly couldn't be trusted with private information, because they let Snowden clean them out."

[/quote]

LOL! That's rich! Most people never heard of the NSA before this.


#19

[quote="gilliam, post:14, topic:348831"]
Third. This is way off topic

[/quote]

However, there's one connection - 9/11, a false flag operation engineered and overseen by rogue elements in our own government (at least according to my opinion), was the boogeyman, that was the pretext for the Patriot Act, for unprecedented and insane NSA spying and monitoring activity, and for the war in Iraq.

It just seems to me that Americans are still scared of the manufactured jihadi terrorist threat, and that's why they allow the NSA recording everyone's phone calls and internet communications.

I, for one, do not want the NSA doing this. This is not about protecting us about terror - it's about economic spying, societal control, and political manipulation.

For God's sake, if we really wanted to find the terrorists, why didn't we go after Saudi Arabia instead of Iraq? I started a separate thread about the Saudi Arabia connection, but it was closed down - see forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=846621 - quote:

A pair of lawmakers who recently read the redacted portion say they are “absolutely shocked” at the level of foreign state involvement in the attacks.
Reps. Walter Jones (R-NC) and Stephen Lynch (D-Mass.) can’t reveal the nation identified by it without violating federal law. So they’ve proposed Congress pass a resolution asking President Obama to declassify the entire 2002 report, “Joint Inquiry Into Intelligence Community Activities Before and After the Terrorist Attacks of September 11, 2001.”

Also, we have domestic terrorists alright who rigged the WTC with incendiary nano thermite, and why is NIST stonewalling on the crystal clear evidence that the WTC was rigged by incendiary material (nano thermite)?

To me, it's clear that neither the Bush, nor the Obama administrations are willing to catch the domestic and foreign terrorists who carried out the inside job of 9/11. But they are using 9/11 to scare people into accepting the NSA spying on everybody, both at home and abroad.


#20

[quote="gilliam, post:14, topic:348831"]
Second. It is pretty obvious what hit the towers and it was airplanes.

[/quote]

I would love to have a discussion about this, but I'm not sure where to open a new thread, so as not to derail this particular thread with a lot of technical details.


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