Latin Mass

Please read:
freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1357786/posts

What are your thoughts on this?

My family and I (3 kids under 7) have attended the Latin Mass only once. It does indeed seem to be more conservative (but why???), but at the same time it did make it harder for the kids to follow and they got restless pretty quickly.

There was no familiar music or musical instruments which often help my kids pay more attention and feel part of the celebration.

Also, the environment was very austere and people did appear to be very righteous.

We are a very conservative family and find it very hard to find compatible friendships and other families with the same strong values for life and Church teachings, but these people seemed too much even for us.
Why is it so difficult to find a standard Catholic Church who is just as conservative?
I would appreciate your comments.

God Bless,

enrico in CO
P.S. I am from originally Italy and I do understand Latin…

[quote=smeeko]Please read:
freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1357786/posts

What are your thoughts on this?

My family and I (3 kids under 7) have attended the Latin Mass only once. It does indeed seem to be more conservative (but why???), but at the same time it did make it harder for the kids to follow and they got restless pretty quickly.

There was no familiar music or musical instruments which often help my kids pay more attention and feel part of the celebration.

Also, the environment was very austere and people did appear to be very righteous.

Enrico great article, I suggest you attend the mass more, give it a chance and you may experience what most do, a unique presence of God in this form of Mass.

God Bless
Fogny

We are a very conservative family and find it very hard to find compatible friendships and other families with the same strong values for life and Church teachings, but these people seemed too much even for us.
Why is it so difficult to find a standard Catholic Church who is just as conservative?
I would appreciate your comments.

God Bless,

enrico in CO
P.S. I am from originally Italy and I do understand Latin…
[/quote]

smeeko, You have only attended ONE Tridentine mass (your words). From your description that Mass was the same as the Mass was in the 1950s and 1960s, solemn, no loud music and everyone praying instead of talking. The news article said there was socializing after Mass.

For me, this Mass is making all the people concentrate on the most important part of the Mass - The Consencration! It is a true Mass with longstanding acceptance. It was the Mass of our Fathers. When this was the only Mass the Seminaries were full, not so now.

[quote=Exporter]When this was the only Mass the Seminaries were full, not so now.
[/quote]

When there was no Designated Hitter rule in baseball the Seminaries were full, not so now.

When television sets were made in America the Seminaries were full, not so now.

Let’s be careful with conclusions of “cause” and “effect”.

Please continue to attend-and try attending a High Mass, which is the Norm (the Low Mass was instituted somewhere around the IX century as believe it or not-so many priests wanted and felt they had to offer a sacrifice that they shortened the Mass to get more masses in, and there were also times when a deacon was not present to assist).

But the reason you can not find a Novus Ordo Mass that has the same reverence is because it was designed by 200 theologians, many of them liberal, headed by a known Mason, and with Protestant intervention. It was designed for the PEOPLE and LAITY and NOT GOD. And dont think that we are not experiencing the fallout of this Mass-at the hands of God and Saint Peter and Paul (as Per St Pius V) for changing the mass, the Canon and all of the austerity this mass had. Dont go with what is easy-go with what is difficult and makes you feel the love for our Lord

[quote=smeeko]Please read:
freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1357786/posts

What are your thoughts on this?

My family and I (3 kids under 7) have attended the Latin Mass only once. It does indeed seem to be more conservative (but why???), but at the same time it did make it harder for the kids to follow and they got restless pretty quickly.

There was no familiar music or musical instruments which often help my kids pay more attention and feel part of the celebration.

Also, the environment was very austere and people did appear to be very righteous.

We are a very conservative family and find it very hard to find compatible friendships and other families with the same strong values for life and Church teachings, but these people seemed too much even for us.
Why is it so difficult to find a standard Catholic Church who is just as conservative?
I would appreciate your comments.

God Bless,

enrico in CO
P.S. I am from originally Italy and I do understand Latin…
[/quote]

[quote=Exporter]smeeko, You have only attended ONE Tridentine mass (your words). From your description that Mass was the same as the Mass was in the 1950s and 1960s, solemn, no loud music and everyone praying instead of talking. The news article said there was socializing after Mass.

For me, this Mass is making all the people concentrate on the most important part of the Mass - The Consencration! It is a true Mass with longstanding acceptance. It was the Mass of our Fathers. When this was the only Mass the Seminaries were full, not so now.
[/quote]

Oddly enough the people at the TLM (at least where I go) are much more friendly than the rest of the parish. Before, i would go to Mass and leave without talking to anyone. By my third TLM, people were introducing themselves and welcoming me (they probably waited until I showed I was there to stay). I’ve been going now for about 6 months and I’ve already been personally invited to a couple picnics. Everyone is always socializing after Mass.

It does take more than one Mass to get used to the TLM. My first time I was totally lost. I kept having to look over the shoulder of a little girl in front of me to see what page of the missalette we were on. After a few weeks though, I got my bearings and it’s been awesome ever since.

The Mass is the wedding banquet in the upper room.

The Mass is beign at the foot of the cross at Calvary.

With this in mind, it is a pretty serious matter.

And, as with a wedding celebration, there is a reception afterwards!!

I have three kids under 7 too. They have grown up with the Latin Mass, so yes, they fidget, etc, and the littlest one I take to the cry room, but they know that once we hit those doors, quiet and respect must take precedence. They also know that afterwards, if they behave, they can run around outside or in the parish hall with their friends!!

We also do the Norvus Ordo too sometimes, but the rules of reverence still apply, so they do quite well.

smeeko,

I know what you mean. I don’t think my wife would have converted had there been only the Latin Mass available. I think my kids would have had difficulty staying active was well. It’s like solid food when many in the pews need milk.

In my parish in Colorado Springs, we have small groups that routinely meet apart from Mass to discuss the Catholic faith. I’ve joined a group of conservative Catholics who meet weekly to discuss the faith. We are blessed to have a pretty conservative bishop, Most Rev. Michael Sheridan. My pastor is also moving the parish back to more conservative Catholicism. So I wouldn’t lose hope.

Where are you at in Colorado?

I’ve taken my kids to a TLM before ( I’ve got 4 kids all under the age of 6)

They had no problems with the music, all ‘Catholic Classics’.

I ran through some of the responses with them a few times before Mass and they made great efforts to respond.

Kids have been attending the TLM for centuries, I don’t see what the issue is.

( I have also taken my kids to Byzantine Divine Liturgies as well, with similar effect, in fact even more so, the really like getting to have the antidoron - My 6 year old son prefers the D.L. to any other Mass he’s been to)

Kids have been attending the TLM for centuries, I don’t see what the issue is.

Nowadays, everything is supposed to be so “kid friendly”, and nobody is ever expected to have to conform himself or herself. You know, “let it all hang out”. Don’t repress little Junior or Buffy. You KNOW kids have short attention spans, so try to make the Mass as attractive as you can. . .bring toys, bring food, focus all your attention on the little darlings, explain EVERYTHING on their level, ignore the other people because they shouldn’t criticize Junior and Buffy’s behavior, they should be glad that you, YOU!, wonderful you, deigned to show up at their crummy church. . .

That’s the attitude that parents have to deal with. The idea that everything should conform to them, their children, their situation, their comfort level. . .it’s been so subtly inculcated that people, intelligent people, don’t even recognize how arrogant the attitude is.

Children are remarkably teachable. They are remarkably adaptable. In three short years they go from prone to creeping to crawling to walking to running. They go from gurgles to sounds to words to sentences to phrases. They go from instinctive suckling to being able to use cup, fork, spoon and plate all by themselves.

Surely they can sit reasonably quietly in a church for approximately 45 minutes once a week. Many of them are expected to sit reasonably quietly for the same periods of time, or longer, at their day care center or on car trips or at Grandma’s.

I wish people wouldn’t sell children short by acting as though they aren’t capable of doing something to begin with. Sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy for failure, isn’t it?

Hi Smeeko,

The Pope says the so-called New Mass everyday, sometimes even in Latin.You’re in good company.

What makes a parish a good parish is you. Give your good example, and God will be happy with you.

Verbum

This is my former parish before I moved. I will say I have never found a parish as active, as welcoming, as supporting as St Stephens in Sacramento. It really is the ideal Catholic community. It has 3 full time priests plus a priest who is there on Sundays, not to mention many visiting priests and seminarians, and a active faith life.

It is a great contrast to what I find so often in a typical suburban parish with Fr. Bill or Fr. Dave and the club of EMHCs that surround them, yet they make little effort elsewhere to welcome others. As for the new mass making things easier, I has no idea about the eucharist, what mortal sin was, what the confetior was, what the offertory was untill I started to go to the TLM. Yes I know there are reverent NO masses, I belong to such a parish that has them now, but sadly they are even more difficult to find than TLMs.

we are supposed to conform to how the mass is. not force the mass to conform to our ever changing society. im not some old person who doesnt like change, im 16. but ive been to both the latin mass and the new mass and i think the latin mass is conducted in a much more holy and reverent manner. everyone shows up dressed respectfully and their children actually are disciplined instead of being allowed to yell and run all over. the latin mass puts the focus on what were their for: the consecration. its not about us. i currently go to the new mass and i wonder most of the time what happened to the mass. most of the time the priest sits down while everyone sings. it seems like most of the prayers are gone. and i dont know if im the only one who cant stand the songs they play, i hope im not. no matter how many times you repeat “our god is an awesome god” its not gonna make the song any better. we all know that god is good and that jesus is our savior. we dont need 80 million songs rephrasing that over and over again.

You’re Italian, right?
Well let me present you an analogy. Does a wine taste good two seconds after it enters your mouth or thirty seconds later? The TLM is like a fine wine, you drink it slowly and with time, the flavor becomes better, right?

[quote=smeeko]Please read:
freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1357786/posts

What are your thoughts on this?

My family and I (3 kids under 7) have attended the Latin Mass only once. It does indeed seem to be more conservative (but why???), but at the same time it did make it harder for the kids to follow and they got restless pretty quickly.

There was no familiar music or musical instruments which often help my kids pay more attention and feel part of the celebration.

Also, the environment was very austere and people did appear to be very righteous.

We are a very conservative family and find it very hard to find compatible friendships and other families with the same strong values for life and Church teachings, but these people seemed too much even for us.
Why is it so difficult to find a standard Catholic Church who is just as conservative?
I would appreciate your comments.

God Bless,

enrico in CO
P.S. I am from originally Italy and I do understand Latin…
[/quote]

[quote=katolik]You’re Italian, right?
Well let me present you an analogy. Does a wine taste good two seconds after it enters your mouth or thirty seconds later? The TLM is like a fine wine, you drink it slowly and with time, the flavor becomes better, right?
[/quote]

This is definitely true. The first time I went I had no clue what was going on and I felt totally out of place. Within a couple weeks I was totally hooked.

[quote=Genesis315]Oddly enough the people at the TLM (at least where I go) are much more friendly than the rest of the parish. Before, i would go to Mass and leave without talking to anyone. By my third TLM, people were introducing themselves and welcoming me (they probably waited until I showed I was there to stay). I’ve been going now for about 6 months and I’ve already been personally invited to a couple picnics. Everyone is always socializing after Mass.

It does take more than one Mass to get used to the TLM. My first time I was totally lost. I kept having to look over the shoulder of a little girl in front of me to see what page of the missalette we were on. After a few weeks though, I got my bearings and it’s been awesome ever since.
[/quote]

First time I drank fine wine at my sister’s wedding, I wanted my Canada Dry Ginger Ale back.
Now?
No-no
From Smeeko:
There was no familiar music or musical instruments which often help my kids pay more attention and feel part of the celebration.

Also, the environment was very austere and people did appear to be very righteous.
Actually, it’s called “reverence” before “equalitarianism” set in.

We are a very conservative family and find it very hard to find compatible friendships and other families with the same strong values for life and Church teachings


That would sound “righteous” to…a liberal.

IF your kids were not “entertained” they were indoctrinated towards entertainment. God does not owe us entertainment at any age. Teach what worship is and must be done to thank God for everything, even the next breath we take.
At home, give them some traditional Mass Catechesis.
Meanwhile, do you say the Rosary as a family at nite maybe twice / week, each having a part, with the lights out and a candle lit in front of a Crucifix or holy statue?

Live what you want them to be.

How do people “appear” righteous? Only God can read their hearts. Maybe they “appear” righteous because they *are *righteous?

And I agree that we shouldn’t talk down to kids. That’s why I find the “Eucharistic Prayers for Children” in the new Mass so offensive. Thankfully, I’ve never attended a Mass where one was used. Just reading them was bad enough. Children aren’t stupid and they don’t need to be talked down to like they are.

Thanks for all the answers and sorry for my late reply.

Are we righteous? We try not to be at least not to appear so.
I agree we have to try it again and maybe at a different parish.
We do say rosaries with our kids and do not watch TV.
We don’t usually go to birthday parties, we try to live humbly, I pary at abortion mills, etc.
But you will have to admit that if a 5 years old kid who likes to listen to chitars and piano and joining in singing: “Here I am Lord” or similar songs, who knows that tee Our Father and the sign of peace come after consacration, can be a little bored and lost by a Latin ceremony.

more later… (kids require attention now;) )
God bless

Enrico in CO

The idea that everything should conform to them, their children, their situation, their comfort level. . .it’s been so subtly inculcated that people, intelligent people, don’t even recognize how arrogant the attitude is.

OH!, I soooo agree!
Here comes one of those ‘back in my day stories’…but it’s true. The culture in which I grew up was NOT oriented to kids. Children did as they were told, sat still when expected, were quiet around adults unless spoken to, were home for dinner, from dates and everywhere else when expected or by golly you went nowhere for a looonnggg time! We behaved in school, in church, in public or else. Parents ruled the home, NOT the kids. TV was so boring to us, when we finally got one, because all programming was geared to adults except for Saturday morning.
Somewhere around the early to mid seventies, it all began to change.
Now it’s all about little Dillon & McKenna’s (BTW, whatever happened to NORMAL names?) feelings and self esteem.
By the time the child is 5 to 6, he/she is capable of sitting quietly through Mass, Latin or otherwise. Who’s the boss?!?? (parent)

This little rant is NOT directed to anyone in particular - just my way of sounding off about the minions of out-of-control kids I see every day as well as at Mass.

There’s no disgusted “smilie” but that’s my face at the moment.

[quote=rcn]When there was no Designated Hitter rule in baseball the Seminaries were full, not so now.

When television sets were made in America the Seminaries were full, not so now.

Let’s be careful with conclusions of “cause” and “effect”.
[/quote]


rcn, "Lets be careful with conclusions OF “cause” and “effect”.

I know that you realise that Baseball and television have zero effect on the number of Seminarians. Wouldn’t it be much more likely that the main worship service of the Catholic Church, the Mass, would effect young men and make them want to be a priest more than Baseball or Television?

Respectfully, your analogy is full of holes and not applicable. You have to agree that the Mass is the one most Holy event we as men can witness on earth. I think you were just trying to be funny.

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