LDS & Alcohol.


#1

Now I understand that alcohol is prohibited in LDS per their (Word of Wisdom), my question is why THE MOST HIGH realm did not prohibit that from the beginning and waited 1833 years to reveal that to Joseph Smith while people were getting drunk and abusing the society all those years!!!

I really respect LDS decision not to drink alcohol, and I’m with it, but should that be attributed to be a revelation rather than an earthy decision by Joseph Smith!, and doesn’t that contradict (Matthew 26:27)?


#2

I could be wrong Sam but I believe its considered grape juice Biblically by the LDS. However, Christ’s first miracle wasn’t to make grape juice.

Matthew 26:29
26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.

Mark 14:25
22 And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body.

23 And he took the cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them: and they all drank of it.

24 And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.

25 Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.

Luke 22:13-20
13 And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.

14 And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.

15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:

16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.

17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:

18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.

19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

Course there’s the Wedding of Cana also referenced to above. The Bible has numerous verse’s condemning drunkenness, but not general consumption of alcohol. The LDS church used alcoholic wine for the sacrament early on.

All this isn’t to say that Alcohol is a non issue. Obviously its an issue.


#3

BTW........I believe if the LDS can keep up in having members refrain from wicked water I say Amen! How they defend it Biblically would be speculation on my part though just to clarify.


#4

Jesus was a Jew. The perfect Jew in fulfilling the law. The Jewish Sabbath meal involved drinking grape juice four times during the meal? Jesus warned against drunkenness precisely because the drinking of alcohol was a standard part of the society. We wouldn’t have a country (USA) if it weren’t for the beer stored on the Mayflower. And I’ll bet my 401K that Joseph Smith had some too. :smiley:


#5

Living in Mormon country I had the same question(s). I also questioned Caffeine/ “hot Drink”

Booze was outlawed because it created unruly behavior and that was something the church could not afford to have.

Caffeine is banned, in my opinion, because the Mormons were out in nowhere land and had no access to a constant trade route. So, why not outlaw “hot drink”. There would be no black market and price gouging would not happen. It was a control mechanism.


#6

Next to the rejection of the Trinity and rejection of Christ’s church, the saddest thing about Mormonism is the prohibition of caffeine and with it coffee. God who’s creation is all good, gave us the coffee bean for a reason.

:coffeeread:


#7

The LDS church actually recently posted something on their website saying that they have never been against Caffeinated drinks, only coffee and tea. Here’s a new article on it: fox13now.com/2012/08/30/lds-blog-post-says-caffeine-ok-for-mormons/

For the record, I was raised in a house that was very strict about NO form of caffeine, but my parents have since relented. However, a local church authority told them that children can’t be trusted at sleepovers, so my younger siblings (aged between 12 and 17) haven’t been allowed to have or attend sleepovers in a few years. It’s always a tradeoff :rolleyes:


#8

For Mormons it goes right the heart of the belief that Joseph Smith was called to be THE prophet in the last days to restore the Lord’s church and that his successors are called to be prophets just as well…

So any points that anyone would bring up to Mormons in order to prove or debate that Mormonism is wrong doesnt matter to them

It goes to what they call their testimony of Joseph Smith being called to be THE prophet of the last dispensation to restore the truth.

It’s moot to them any argument suggesting anything lest. Moot.


#9

They would point to the dietary regulation that Jews were given against eating any animal with a cloved hoof (IE pigs)

Pigs too are part of God’s creation yet it was prohibited to be eaten by the Lord according to the Jewish laws.

So that argument would be moot to them as well…


#10

[BIBLEDRB]mark 7:14-15[/BIBLEDRB]


#11

So the coffee bean is prohiibited but pork & birth control is ok. :mad: Makes a lot of sense to me, not. This is yet another example of a straying from the Truth that is Christ and his Church. The pill is not only a harmful chemical to the human body but is an abortifacient in its third means of preventing pregancy.

From lds.org:

Decisions about birth control and the consequences of those decisions rest solely with each married couple

:compcoff:


#12

In the llifetimes of both Joseph Smith and of Brigham Young, the WoW was deemed advisory rather than absolutely prohibitive. It was sometime near the close of the 19th Century or just around the beginning of the 20th that the WoW became interpreted as a strict commandment, perhaps as a replacement for the practice of plural marriage as a distinguishing feature of Mormonism. There is considerable question about the alcohol content of wine in Jesus’ time–fermenting practices were less sophisticated than now, and wine was often “cut” with water. In any case–the LDS, based upon another of their latter-day revelations, have long been exempted from using the precise elements for their Sacrament Servicewhich Christ used. Since their service is largely symbolic, it has been said that they could observe it using Fritos and ginger ale if they so elected, so long as the elements were received with reverence. (The most reverent moments of an LDS meeting are during distribution/reception of Sacrament).


#13

YET . . .Mormons have larger families than Catholics in many many surveys. The LDS tolerate birth control in theory but in practice the peer pressure is towards not employing it. Catholics strictly prohibit ABC but in practice I hear a lot of folks report that our priests in the confessional often advise penitents that ABC is not something requiring absolution, etcetera. An area where we might need to learn from Mormons?


#14

Grape juice did not exist until a liitle more than a century ago. Unless prevented by refrigeration or pastuerisation all grape juice by the laws of nature will fast begin to ferment and become wine.

During the time when mormons came to be neither method of preventing fermentation existed yet and so the mormons substituted water for wine in their “sacrament” observances.

At the last supper Our Lord used wine to give us his blood. The Last supper was in spring and harvest was in autumn, the grape juice would have fermented by that time.

And of course no-one considered wine taboo or “dirty” until the temperance movement.


#15

Yet: we Catholics consume nothing for at least one hour prior to receiving Holy Communion, abstain from meat on Fridays in Lent, etcetera. The pious practices of Mormons, like our own pious practices, are undertaken in full view of passages such as the one you cite, to honor God in what we eat and drink.


#16

http://mormonwines.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/carthagesmall20v2.jpg?w=300&h=200

Yep, just before his death:

“Joseph and Hyrum Smith were murdered in a gunfight in the late afternoon of June 27, 1844. This drawing depicts the hours immediately before that gunfight, which Joseph, Hyrum, John Taylor, and Willard Richards spent smoking, drinking, and singing to lighten their mood.”

link


#17

I believe Mormons used actual fermented wine around the 1890-1920 era. Well into the time that grape juice could be preserved for extended periods of time. Why have monastics abstained from alcohol for centuries, except that such abstinence represents a special mark of holiness? Mormons, likewise, wish to set for themselves external landmarks of holiness. Not to confuse externalities with true inner holiness of sourse.


#18

Someone can explain to me, if they would be so kind, the truth of this statement that I have heard" wine in Biblical times did not have nearly the alcohol content of wine today


#19

The Jews diluted wine with water but I do not know what the alcohol content would have been. I dilute my grey goose with ice.


#20

This comparison doesn’t make any sense to me. If you ask Mormons why they abstain from alcohol, it never has anything to do with receiving Jesus Christ in the Eucharist. Mostly, it is about obedience for them. It isn’t even about an OT type of clean or unclean, so the comparison to pork doesn’t make any sense either.

Neither do we fast before communion in order to be ritually clean. It is more a matter of respect, in recognition of what we are receiving.

CCC 1387 To prepare for worthy reception of this sacrament, the faithful should observe the fast required in their Church. Bodily demeanor (gestures, clothing) ought to convey the respect, solemnity, and joy of this moment when Christ becomes our guest.

Why? Precisely because it is Jesus Christ who has cleansed us with His Blood, and through our baptism.

I don’t have any problem with Mormons adhering to their own beliefs, but there really isn’t any comparison theologically speaking, to anything in Catholicism. The only reason they abstain from alcohol is because their church leaders said they should, and they believe they should obey their leaders.


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