LDS:"Ancient of Days" = Adam???


#1

I was watching a lds movie on another thread:
forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=123944
And as I was watching there was a quote from an LDS teaching book “Answers to Gospel Questions” that says The Ancient of Days (which is an OT reference to Jesus) is actually Adam…:eek:…is this true?

I remember a while back seeing that the LDS Journal of Discourses written by Brigham Young says Adam was really God the Father (or God the Son I cant remember which) but the LDS dont consider that “official” doctrine.


#2

Yes. Here’s a link:

lightplanet.com/mormons/basic/bible/adam2.html

D&C 138:38:
“Among the great and almighty ones who were assembled in this vast congregation of the righteous were Father Adam, the Ancient of Days and father of all”

scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/138

And, yes, when I was LDS, I came across teachings in the Bible which make it plain that the Ancient of Days referred to Jesus.


#3

So why do they deny the accuracy of the Journal of Discourses which says Adam was Jesus?
I remember bringing it up in here and the LDS guys brushed off the Journal as “non authoritative”.


#4

The Journal of Discourses is a collection of talks given in General conference by LDS Prophets and Apostles during the early period of the LDS church in Utah. It covers the time period of Brigham Young and John Taylor. Current Mormon teaching manuals quote from it fairly often. The LDS church kind of quietly “disses” it as poorly scribed and thus prone to error. It was at one time the primary vehicle for reading the words of “modern prophets”. It is not nor has it ever been canonized scripture. BUT (much like the Ensign today) it was on fairly equal footing as the “word of the lord” from his current oracles.


#5

Just so thigns are clear…Am I correct in concluding the LDS teach Adam and Jesus are the SAME person?


#6

Brigham Young taught that Adam was God the Father.

irr.org/MIT/WDIST/wdist-adam-god.html

Andrea


#7

I’m here to clarify this issue. Please listen. I’m NOT the Ancient of Days, ok? I’m really not. :slight_smile:

God bless,

Adam


#8

You are correct, what I said earlier is because I couldnt remember if BY called Adam the Father or the Son.

So what about the Ancient of Days? That link you provided doesnt talk about it.

:rotfl:


#9

Brigham Young said Adam was God the Father. Gordon B. Hinckley has admitted that Brigham Young taught that. BUT the LDS church has for yours made it very clear that they do NOT believe that Adam is God. They reconcile that with Brigham Young being a prophet by either claiming he didn’t say it, was taken out of context (difficult) OR they say he was speculating as opposed to prophesying.

Mormons teach that Adam is the ancient of days. They believe that at the end of our age all of the resurrected prophets in charge of each “dispensation” (Abraham, Noah, Moses, Joseph smith, etc.) will hand their “keys” and a report of their stewardship to Adam. Adam as the person to whom everyone born is eventually “sealed” to (through their genealogies) will then take all of this and deliver it to his brother Jesus whom he created the world with. Jesus will present it to Elohim as a “saved” world and the exalted will take their places in the Celestial kingdom as either ministering angels or Gods who will go create their own worlds.


#10

Aha! So they dont believe the Ancient of Days is God at all, now I get it. Thats what had me so confused.
(Its pretty clear from Scripture that vision from Daniel is Jesus but getting them to admit that is another story.)

As for “Adam, brother of Jesus”??? Doesnt that make Adam divine and how is he not a god of some sort if Jesus is?


#11

Per the LDS, Elohim is our god and we are all his sons and daughters, born as simple, innocent spirit-children then later receiving earthly bodies within which we could learn and mature. Jesus is the first-born spirit-child, and therefore our eldest brother, and was the first of Elohim’s children to reach the status of being a god. According to the Book of Abraham, Jesus made it to god-status early, along with a few others, and that team of gods went on to create the earth for the rest of us.


#12

the Temple teaching is that Elohim (God the Father) Directed everything by Telling Jehovah (Jesus) what to do. Jehovah then takes Michael (Adam…and yes that is the archangel Michael) along with him to actually do the work of creating the earth. Each step of the way Jehovah goes back and reports to Elohim what they accomplished and gets the instructions for the next step. Once the earth is ready for man then Michael is sent down to get his body, his memory is “veiled” so that he can learn and grow spiritually here on earth. Satan comes to tempt him (and Eve) and Elohim tells Jehovah to send Peter, James and John down to earth as messengers teaching the gospel. (this gets a bit problematic in that those 3 haven’t come to earth yet and thus don’t have bodies but they shake hands with Adam which according to Joseph Smith can’t happen…but that’s a rabbit trail)

SO… Adam will be “first” among the Gods who are children of Elohim…except for Jesus who achieved exaltation early (but needed a body to complete the process…which makes you wonder about the Holy Ghost who isn’t mentioned in the Temple teachings)

I have tired head now. Let me know if you have questions.


#13

LOL you want to know if I have any questions?
Those guys have a TON of explaning to do…:D…but can they explain it…


#14

they can explain all day. Pray to see if the BoM is true. If you feel good about that then you know Joseph Smith is really a true prophet. That means everything they teach must be true and once you are convinced of that and living it then you can go to the Temple and learn this stuff knowing it must be true. Besides don’t you want to be a God? :cool:


#15

Actually I saw this for myself last week on the BYU channel.
They had the president and the other officials all over the map stading on “holy” grounds. They would explain why that ground was significant in Bible/LDS history and then each would end with something like:
“I testify that Jesus is the Son of God and that He lives and that the LDS Church is His Church and Im a child of God out doing His Will, etc”
…HOWEVER not once was this in an apologetics manner, the “testimony” was nothing more than a sales pitch which we are required to take as truth because they said so.
No mention of study, asking the tough questions, no mention what convinced them intellectually, nada…:eek:


#16

So if I get a “warm fuzzy” I can know that it is true?

How do I know the “warm fuzzy” is really the voice of God? :hmmm: Maybe my “warm fuzzy” is just my own desire rationalizing why I should reject everything I’ve ever learned about God. :confused: Or maybe my “warm fuzzy” is coming from something much more insidious and malignant. :mad:

Exactly to whom do I pray, anyway?

To the eternal triune God, Father, Son and Spirit? Oops… they would tell me to reject the BoM.


#17

well now you know why I left the LDS church and became Catholic.

“ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free”:thumbsup:


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