LDS Leaders know the Mormon Church is false

I know this was posted on another thread, but I wanted to pose questions to our LDS friends who say Palmer is lying…

Grant Palmer

Editor Comment: Grant waited 6 months before releasing this report to the public because he wanted to make sure this is what the GA believed.

In mid-October 2012, a returned LDS Mission President contacted me to arrange a meeting. Several days later, he called again and said that a member of the First Quorum of the Seventy also wished to attend. He said the General Authority would attend on condition that I not name him or repeat any stories that would identify him. He explained that neither of them, including the GA’s wife, believed the founding claims of the restoration were true. He clarified that they had read my book, An Insider’s View of Mormon Origins, and had concluded that the LDS Church was not true; was not what it claimed to be. The GA often went to the MormonThink.com website for information and there discovered my book. The Mission President said he received my book from the GA.
We have at this writing met three times. We first met on Tuesday, October 23, 2012 and again February 14, 2013 at my house. On March 26, 2013 we convened at the GAs house. Upon entering my home for the first meeting the GA said, “We are here to learn.” I recognized him. He has been a member of the First Quorum of the Seventy for a number of years. He has served in several high profile assignments during this period. The following are the more important statements made by the GA during our first three meetings. We now meet monthly.
He said that each new member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles is given one million dollars to take care of any financial obligations they have. This money gift allows them to fully focus on the ministry. He said that the overriding consideration of who is chosen is whether they are “church broke,” meaning, will they do whatever they are told. He said the senior six apostles make the agenda and do most of the talking. The junior six are told to observe, listen and learn and really only comment if they are asked. He said that it takes about two to three years before the new apostle discovers that the church is not true. He said it took Dieter F. Uchtdorf a little longer because he was an outsider. He said they privately talk among themselves and know the foundational claims of the restoration are not true, but continue on boldly “because the people need it,” meaning the people need the church. When the Mission President voiced skepticism and named ___ as one who surely did believe, The GA said: “No, he doesn’t.” The one million dollar gift, plus their totally obedient attitude makes it easy for them to go along when they find out the church is not true. For these reasons and others, he doesn’t expect any apostle to ever expose the truth about the foundational claims.
When I asked the GA how he knew these things, he answered by saying that the Quorum of the Twelve today is more isolated from the Quorums of the Seventies now because there are several of them. When only one Quorum of the Seventy existed, there was more intimacy. During his one on one assignments with an apostle, conversations were more familiar. He said that none of the apostles ever said to him directly that they did not believe; but that it was his opinion based on “his interactions with them.” Also, that none of the Twelve want to discuss “truth issues,” meaning issues regarding the foundational claims of the church.
He said that the apostle’s lives are so completely and entirely enmeshed in every detail of their lives in the church, that many of them would probably die defending the church rather than admit the truth about Joseph Smith and the foundations of the church. The GA stated that my disciplinary action (which would have occurred on the final Sunday of October 2010 had I not resigned), was mandated/ordered/approved by the First Presidency of the Church. I said that if the apostles know the church is not true and yet order a disciplinary hearing for my writing a book that is almost certainly true regarding the foundational claims of the church, then they are corrupt even evil. He replied, “That’s right!”
The GA said the church is like a weakened dam. At first you don’t see cracks on the face; nevertheless, things are happening behind the scenes. Eventually, small cracks appear, and then the dam will “explode.” When it does, he said, the members are going to be “shocked” and will need scholars/historians like me to educate them regarding the Mormon past.

Now…here are my questions:

  1. We KNOW and you KNOW that the LDS Church has, for years, lied about the origins of the Book of Mormon. I still have the LDS artwork of js translating while studying the golden plates while a scribe wrote it all down. We now know it did not happen that way. So, do you have any evidence of Grant Palmer lying? If we are to judge just on credibility, wouldn’t you agree that Palmer is more credible?

  2. Don’t you believe that the refusal to excavate Cumorah is evidence that Palmer is telling the truth and the LDS leadership KNOWS it is all a lie?

  3. Doesn;t the fact that Mark Hoffman was able to so easily fool and frighten the LDS leaders to the tune of thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars show that the LDS leaders know it all false?

  4. Doesn;t the fact the the LDS refuse to open their vaults show they have too much to hide?

Very interesting. Prayers for all, God Bless, Memaw

This entire post is nothing but -]hearsay and/-] conjecture.

This line, buried deep within the wall of text is most revealing:

" **He said that none of the apostles ever said to him directly that they did not believe; but that it was his opinion based on “his interactions with them.” ** "

No leader ever admitted to believing his church a fraud, and any conclusion, regardless of a “six month” waiting period, is based purely on the conjecture of the author. It is irresponsible to declare the leaders of LDS guilty of fraud, and provide no verbal or clear behavioral examples as evidence.

None of your questions even relate to the wild speculation you quote above. No Mormon should feel responsible to answer random questions that you think undermine their church if you can not present them in a logical order.

  1. We KNOW and you KNOW that the LDS Church has, for years, lied about the origins of the Book of Mormon. I still have the LDS artwork of js translating while studying the golden plates while a scribe wrote it all down. We now know it did not happen that way. So, do you have any evidence of Grant Palmer lying? If we are to judge just on credibility, wouldn’t you agree that Palmer is more credible?

Your quote from Mr. Palmer has nothing to do with the golden plates, and any arguments against their existence/authenticity.

  1. Don’t you believe that the refusal to excavate Cumorah is evidence that Palmer is telling the truth and the LDS leadership KNOWS it is all a lie?

Why should Mormon’s feel compelled to excavate a holy site, especially by outsiders. They do not know what evidence God has allowed to remain, and do not wish to allow outsiders to control whatever message God has hidden there. This is not evidence of lying or insincerity of belief.

(Not to mention, of course, that the quoted passages has to due with the author’s interactions with the leaders; not their refusal to excavate the hill).

  1. Doesn;t the fact that Mark Hoffman was able to so easily fool and frighten the LDS leaders to the tune of thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars show that the LDS leaders know it all false?

Who the heck is Mark Hoffman??? :mad: You cannot present such a clumsy arrangement of irrelevant questions to the quoted passage and expect a Mormon’s inability to answer them to be proof of his religion’s fraud.

  1. Doesn;t the fact the the LDS refuse to open their vaults show they have too much to hide?

Again, non-sequitur. :shrug:

Trying to show logical inconsistencies in a false religion is laudable. Baselessly accusing its leaders of fraud and knowingly misleading their adherents is slanderous.

Any Mormon who was a young adult or older in the early 80’s is gonna know about Hoffman and the “Salamadar letter”…and the embarassment that whole crime, including murder, brought to the LDS church… :shrug:

More information on Mark Hoffman

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Hofmann

I’m not even mormon, and never have been, and even I remember the Mark Hoffman scandal. :smiley:

Hard to forget a few bombings in SLC and the LDS leaders spending hundreds of thousands on frauds…

You know that this is Catholic Answers Forum not Mormon right? :smiley:

Yes but I enjoy hearing these items about other religions. Truly blessed by being Catholic and I thank God.

I do believe the elastic band has been stretched pretty far and we will be seeing a return, if not a stampede, back to the Catholic Church. God works in mysterious ways. :highprayer:

Yep…but if you look very closely…you will see that THIS particular board is called “Non-Catholic Religions”

I believe this qualifies…

I don’t think it’s polite to criticize the origins of other faiths. There is no history outside of the bible that documents the beginnings of Christianity. A lot of people may question some of that information. There is not a single Roman document about Jesus. That doesn’t mean you can’t believe in the bible. Mormons believe in their church. You can be Catholic without denigrating the LDS church.

This is a discussion board about other faiths. if it is not to your liking, then do not read the threads about other faiths.

Since Mormons come here and tell us js was a prophet, it is important that we, as Catholics, know all we can about them.

Our Saints have warned us to be armed.

Pliny the Younger, Josephus the Jewish historian, and certainly the Romans knew of this cult and were aware that it sprung from the Jews.

And this is the “Non-Catholic” part of CA. :wink:

Getting the thread back on track…:smiley:

If you take this interview along with the fact that the mormon church has built a multi-billion dollar shopping mall and condominium complex, a huge farming operation in Florida and Hawaii, magazines, TV stations, hotel etc., it does make sense.

It appears to have become a multi-company conglomerate more than a “religious” organization. After all, the “first presidency” has been incorporated.

Not to mention the writings of the Church fathers that were not canonized that document the beginnings of Christianity.

And more commercial for profit real estate development in Philadelphia.

The private development by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints calls for 258 apartments, 13 townhouses, and retail shops at 16th and Vine Streets.
Tenants need not be Mormons to rent an apartment or townhouse in the development, officials said. They said the units would rent at market prices.

How benevolent of them renting to all those non Mormons and nodding to the Fair Housing Act.

I think the worst thing owned by the LDS church after the high end shopping mall is it’s very own advertising agency. Some how I just see these two businesses as not fitting well with the mission of an organization that calls itself a church.

You know, you could answer the question… :shrug:

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