Leader of Anglican ordinariate admits interest has waned [CC]

The leader of the new Anglican ordinariate in England has admitted that the number of Anglicans entering the Catholic Church has fallen short of expectations."We have to be honest and …

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I am disappointed but not entirely surprised. People may embrace full communion between churches, such as the Anglican-Lutheran accords. But to actually leave your own parish church is not easy for many Christians. Lets pray that the reunion of all Western Christians will occur some day soon. Also the reunion of the Eastern and Western Church.

I am not surprised either. As I said when much speculation followed the issuing of Anglicanorum Coetibus, roughly 4 1/2 years ago, time would tell what would follow.

I’d still like to see some official and latest numbers for clergy/laity who have taken advantage of* AC*, and joined either of the 3 Ordinariates, and from whence they came.

GKC

Other than individual conversions to Catholicism, it appears that groups of Anglicans reuniting with Rome have been less than one would hope for. The Anglo-Lutheran Catholic Church, formerly members of the LCMS, have or plan to enter the Anglicanorum coetibus but I have no figures on how large the group is.

While I know less about the Lutheran group (though I did exchange posts with then Bishop Gladfelter) than I did as to what was happening with the Continuing Anglicans, and then (the catalyst) the CoE bishops, in 2009, a story I had been watching for over 10 years, I would again suggest waiting to see was transpires. Time will tell.

GKC

I would be willing to bet that more Roman Catholics have become Episcoplians just in the United States than the number of Anglicans who have joined the Ordinariate world-wide, starting with the time the Ordinariate began.

I’ve also read stories that some of those who joined the Ordinariate came back to the Communion. RCC media has been glowing about the prospects of the Ordinariate and over-stating the impact of the Ordinariate to the point to where some people are shocked at how big of a failure it has been thus far.

More things I’d like to see authoritative figures on.

Four+ years ago there were expectations and predictions as to what the impact of the Ordinariates would be. I withheld judgement. Now, figures would be interesting. But to call the process a failure implies some sort of realistic expectation that never was met. I would not be surprised if the figures, whatever they might be, are an accurate reflection of the appeal of Anglicanorum Coetibus to the people for whom it was most pointedly intended.

GKC

Any idea how many Anglican priests have converted individually since the Ordinariate was established? I have mixed feelings every time I read about another Lutheran pastor converting to Rome; glad for them but wishing that the entire Church would reunite together.

Up to date and official figures, no. Just what I’m interested in.

GKC

Great things move slowly. The structure has been built, and the old story is correct. Build it and they will come.
As we see the continued dissolution of the Anglican tradition in their movement away from Biblical teachings such as accepting homosexual priests and women clergy there will be a continued slow stream of High Church and African congregations over time.
God’s time is not our time.
We forget the value good men find in loyalty even to disappointment. It is hard to lose status, friends, congregations and sometimes family.

I think this is really optimistic. There are major problems in the Anglican Communion, but it is still here and it has not dissolved. If you are to read the very conservative Anglican media, you would come away thinking the Communion was going to dissolve yesterday.

Furthermore, I think that you are also going to see a continued movement of Catholics to the Anglican Church. We have been “swapping” parishioners for a long time, I don’t think the tiny Ordinariate is going to appeal much outside the fringe. Anglicans are a stubborn lot and Anglicans want to be Anglicans, you can’t be Anglican and be Roman Catholic. Being allowed to take a few prayers from the Prayer Book with us isn’t going to sway many people to leave.

As an outsider, it seems to me that the Ordinariate was created mainly to attract Anglicans disaffected by the growing liberalism among the western primates. By and large, these were conservative Anglicans. However, it also seems to me that conservative Anglicans are more likely to actually believe what Anglicans believe… which excludes communion with Rome.

I think that this is correct. From what I have read, the Ordinariate has drawn from the Anglo-Papist section of the Church of England, which is very small. Conservative and Evangelical Anglicans tend to believe that communion with Rome is not a possibility at this point, despite the issues of liberalism. Also, liberal and conservative Anglo-Catholic parishes have stayed as well. I think many Anglo-Catholics are misunderstood. Anglo-Catholics emphasize the Catholic part of Anglican history, yet they see themselves as being and remaining fully Anglican by doing so. Despite similarities between the RCC and Anglo-Catholics, it would seem that communion with Rome is not a possibility for them either.

Interesting response that may, in-fact, be reality. Based on what I have read, you may be correct that more Catholics percentage-wise have entered the Anglican/ Episcopal church than the other way around. It appears that some Anglican parishes, like Lutheran have left the national church bodies [TEC/ ELCA] but remain independent. Perhaps these congregations are waiting for a stronger catalyst for reunion of the entire Church.

The ACNA is the new Anglican body that is made up of dioceses that left TEC over the gay issues. The hopes of the ACNA was to get official recognition and communion with Canterbury. Something that has not happened and will likely never happen. Despite having sympathies with some of the views of the ACNA, the way they did things may be described as being shameful.

We may never know the truth, but many eyewitnessess have reported that the bishops who left to form the ACNA gave their vote to our current and controversial Presiding Bishop Jefferts-Schori. The thought was that electing a controversial “flame-throwing” bishop like Schori would hasten the decline of the Episcopal Church and make the ACNA a powerhouse in American Anglicanism. Of course, the whole thing is a total mess and the ACNA has had a very rough start. I pray that they will one day come back, but I doubt that egos on both sides would allow it. There is plenty of sin to be found on both sides of the fight.

On a personal level, I’ve seen the opposite. The Priest at my Parish used to be an Episcopalian Pastor and he came to Catholicism as a Priest under the Blessed JPII provisions. He brought along a big number of people. Also, Taylor Marshall came from the Episcopal Church.

I’d be very interested to see some numbers as well.

Well-stated :thumbsup:

More or less.* Anglicanorum Coetibus* was the final RCC response to over 10 years of maneuvering (much detailed and tedious history involved) on the part of a group of the Anglican Continuum most often identified as the Traditional Anglican Communion, the main face of which in the US was the Anglican Church in America, toward the end of that process. But the trigger for the Apostolic Constitution, in 2009, was the visit of (3, I think) CoE bishops to Rome, seeking a safe haven in the face of the inevitable (any day now) acceptance of females in miters in the CoE. Which finally tipped the scales. it was not necessarily to attract, it was to offer a refuge for those Anglicans seeking union, if only in extremis.

GKC

For some of them, it is. And those are the ones who have left.

Anglo-Papalists are a subset of Anglo-Catholics (sort of ACs on steroids), mostly found in the CoE.

GKC

I’m not in the ACNA, and have considerable issues with it, but I strongly doubt that +Duncan or +Iker (and certainly not +Lawrence) voted for the gracious Katherine in order to hasten a rain wreck, and pick over the fragments. Not the way I watched the history play out.

The future of the Anglican Communion, whatever it might be, is not merely a game played between TEC/CoE and the other developed countries, contra the ACNA, but will play out on the far larger field of the ACNA/Global South (the majority of the Communion, numerically) and the more liberal progressive jurisdictions. I wait and watch.

GKC

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