Lehi the prophet, was he faithless? Can Mormons save him?

“Lehi is a great prophet. The experiences he had in fulfilling the mission God gave him parallel those of other prophets. He shows the devotion, the openness to the Lord’s will, and the determination to follow the Lord’s direction that we look for in the ideal of a prophet.”

“Dreams and visions dominate Lehi’s life; he is called by the Lord in a vision in which he sees Christ and the twelve apostles (1 Ne. 1:6–14.) In another prophecy he foretells the Babylonian captivity, the ministry of the Messiah, and the preaching of the gospel to the gentiles. (1 Ne. 10:3–14.) Even the journey into the wilderness was commanded in a dream. (1 Ne. 2:1–3.) In other dreams Lehi was commanded to send his sons back to Jerusalem to obtain the plates of Laban and later to persuade Ishmael and his sons and daughters to join them. (1 Ne. 3:2–4, 1 Ne. 7:1–2.)”"Nephi makes it clear that no matter how close he himself came to the Lord, the revelation that dealt with where the family should go came to Lehi. The Lord spoke to Lehi “by night, and commanded him that on the morrow he should take his journey into the wilderness.” (1 Ne. 16:9) "

“Lehi was a strong man, not because he relied on his own wealth, power, or talents, but because he relied completely upon the Lord”

  • Marshall R. Craig (1977) professor of English at Brigham Young University, high councilor in the Springville Utah Kolob Stake.

In light of the Mormon view of prophets generally, and of Lehi in particular, as expressed by Marshall R. Craig in an official church publication (“official” by sanction of the leaders of the church, regardless of whether it is “official” in the secular sense of being voted on, or the organizational sense of having been installed between the pages of one or another set of scriptures, or the imprimatur sense of a publicly pronounced vatical sanctification), where did Lehi go wrong? Why did Lehi falter as no other prophet did? Why did Lehi, the great and powerful prophet leading an entire nation (in embryonic form) across dreaded seas, crumble in his faith to the point that he could not continue to follow the dictates and inspiration of the invisible God without some visible, material, mechanical tool for his “inspiration” and “guidance.” A combination compass-ouiji board-(magic eight-ball, the incomparable “Liahona”?

Does his need for a tool to guide him and to tell him the Lord’s will suggest spiritual weakness on Lehi’s part?

Does God’s need for a physical tool to guide a prophet suggest that God has restricted powers of communication with his chosen prophets?

The “faithful” answer must be something like, “God can do what he wants. Besides, this way, he was certain to get his message across. Besides, Lehi’s children were losing faith; they needed something they could believe in if they were to follow their father into the wilderness. Etc.” But what is the reasonable answer? What objective reason is there, that would apply in every such case? Moses had to lead a people for forty years. If anyone needed a ball to lead a people into, through, and across a wilderness, it was him. Moses’ family doubted him, too, yet God didn’t give him a magic ball to convince them of his leadership role. Now, I admit, according to the Old Testament, Elijah got a chariot. Whether literal or figurative, that was a means for he himself to go somewhere, not to tell others where to go, nor what was on the Lord’s mind. Elijah himself spoke for the Lord; the chariot did not. He had a mantle, and handed that down, but that was a symbol of his office, not a tool for conveying messages or telling people where to go.

Lehi was led mostly by “dreams and visions.” His propheteers can only hope he interpreted them correctly, and hope they, too, are not crediting them with more weight than they can logically, even faithfully, support.

I have no idea what is being asked here…

Maybe if I could read a concise summary?

Who is Lehi ?:confused:

A prophet in the book of Mormon, of course! No surprise, considering the post…

There are various Lehis in the Book of Mormon. There is zero reason to believe that any of them existed.

Why are you asking a question that presupposes your audience believes in Lehi and Mormon theology? Catholics (and Protestants) don’t believe that the Book of Mormon is Holy Scripture. I mean, it’s about as silly as if I posted, “Why isn’t the Eucharist literally the body and blood of Christ” on this forum.

This is the non-Catholic section of the forums. Tarquin is asking a question to mormon members on this forum.

Of course Mormons can save Lehi. All they have to do is baptize him by proxy in the temple! :smiley:

I don’t know why Lehi went from dreams and visions to the Liahona. The unbelief of his family can’t be the reason because the Liahona didn’t work if they all didn’t believe. In practice, the Liahona was not much different from the dreams and visions.

Maybe Joseph Smith wanted the Nephites to have a cool artifact? :shrug:

I’d love to see it!

Please let me know where this artifact is kept. Maybe a LDS museum?

The place it is kept is called Imagination.

Now that doesn’t help…:stuck_out_tongue:


I still may fail to see an incentive to approach a specific woman, although i’m not intimidated anymore. For most cases in past times it had been not unfounded.

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Ahh! That certainly clears everything up!:rolleyes:

I still may fail to see an incentive to approach a specific woman, although i’m not intimidated anymore. For most cases in past times it had been not unfounded.

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Ahh! That certainly clears everything up!:rolleyes:

Yes, thank you, Jadamo.
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I guess I failed by not more clearly identifying Lehi in the post itself. :blush:
I’ve been reading so many threads about Mormonism, and posts by Mormons on threads not about Mormonism, and posted a few myself, I fell into the trap of thinking everybody already knows a lot about Lehi. Next time! Next time I will more clearly identify what it is that I am rambling about . . . about.

For additional clarity, I was (sincerely) hoping a Mormon would explain this, reasonably, without redefining terms (like prophet), and without special appeals for the people in the Book of Mormon as opposed to Jews and Christians. Failing that, an admission of some sort that there is something inconsistent in the story about how God reveals himself and his will to prophets, priests, people, or whoever. :yup:

I have often admitted, “Hey, my understanding was wrong. I believe differently now.” My understanding about God has been progressing (I hope it’s “progressing”) for my entire life. How ironic if someone who believed in “eternal progression” only “added to” his beliefs rather than really “progress” with them.

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I think you failed to notice the obvious.
The Liahona was a digital compass and GPS style navigation system with mobile text messaging from God.
The obvious question is how would Joseph Smith have come up with such a device when there wasnt even electricity, radio or even science fiction to go off of.

If you need further evidence that this is the question then look at the other devices that were made handy for Joseph. The book of Mormon was supposedly written in an Egyptian like language on hammered gold sheets that were held,together by a 3 ring binder.

First, the Book of Mormon was published in 1830 while the 3 ring binder was not invented until 1886. Google it.
Second, No books were known of to be either written on metal or gold for that matter.
Third, the plates were translated by a device that Joseph was given. Again, this is before any modern electronic technology.

The Book of Mormon was meant for those living in the last days. The Liahona’s other purpose besides leading Lehi to the America’s was so that it would be recognized by You and others living in these times.

Mike, I think the obvious question really is: Where are these artifacts now?

Do they even exist? If so, let’s have objective, LDS and non-LDS scientists analyze these artifacts and determine their use and origin. (There’s precedent for that: The Shroud of Turin)

If they don’t exist Mike, well, it’s hard to make claims about artifacts that don’t actually exist.

“God will do what he wants”, “it is a matter of faith”, etc. As I revert back to my old thinking, I would suppose God is continuing to test him in all different ways. After all, God is preparing Lehi to enter the Celestial Kingdom and progress to godhood.

Is there even any reasonable answer to anything pertaining to this? :rolleyes:

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