Let's talk about Annulment

None of these happened because of secular interference and was opposed by Church at first. Ordaining single men outside monastery… well Priests in Rome and Greece had to be continent after ordination. This wasn’t case in Antioch but Greeks used to have Latin practice. Others are doctrinally insignificant perhaps save use of unleavened bread.

Point is you can read Church Fathers and realize practice of remarriage of divorced was not allowed anywhere (unlike with some other practices Church Fathers say this regardless of where they are from) and at the same time you will not see any Church Father either being opposed in this by anyone but secular side nor any Church Father saying anything contrary to it. So no, you can’t prove both sides. But from their as well as other historical writings it’s clear Byzantine Church was not okay with civil divorce into remarriage until it was… and that points to exercise of Caesaropapism in this practice.

again, having watched this argument play out between folks far more qualified than either of us, it’s just not that clear cut.

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Well said!

The unstated presumption seems to be that all of these decrees of nullity are for Catholic couples. In truth many of the annulment each year are for non-catholic marriages. The church presumes that all non Catholic marriages are Sacramental. But the issue arises sometimes when a non-catholic previously divorced wants to get married to a Catholic. And even two non-catholics, previously divorced and remarried, who decide to convert and become Catholic would need to have their previous marriages call considered.

I didn’t know the orthodox were mormons…
Seriously, Jesus himself makes it clear in the gospels that marriage doesn’t last beyond death.

No, the Church presumes that all non-Catholic marriages are valid. Some may be sacramental, but that requires that both parties be validly baptized.

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Yes, I actually understand that distinction - on a fire assignment and typing on phone…either valid and or sacramental…my point was that a great many of the applications for a tribunal decision that result in decrees of nullity are not marriages between two Catholics parties but between two non Catholics

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